Aged developer and coarse grain?

Hi all,

I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been well beyond
their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford DD-X from a
bottle that was open for over a year, although under Protectan. The
developer appeared perfectly normal.

The negs look OK at first sight. Contrast is fine and so is base
density. But the grain appears a lot coarser than what one would expect
from Delta 100.

Any explanation?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
it ages, for a variety of reasons.

Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
Hi all,

I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been well beyond
their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford DD-X from a
bottle that was open for over a year, although under Protectan. The
developer appeared perfectly normal.

The negs look OK at first sight. Contrast is fine and so is base
density. But the grain appears a lot coarser than what one would expect
from Delta 100.

Any explanation?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been
well beyond
their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford
DD-X from a
bottle that was open for over a year, although under
Protectan. The
developer appeared perfectly normal.

The negs look OK at first sight. Contrast is fine and so
is base
density. But the grain appears a lot coarser than what one
would expect
from Delta 100.

Any explanation?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Have you isolated this by trying another film or
another developer? DDX is similar to Microphen and should
produce similar grain. Microphen, DDX, T-Max, and similar
developers produce somewhat coarser grain than D-76.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

UC wrote:
Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
it ages, for a variety of reasons.

What mechanism causes this? Physical or chemical changes in
the emulsion? Do these apply to unexposed film, to exposed film
with a latent image, or both?

Just curious.

The smallest grains gradually lose sensitivity in greater proportion,
leaving only the largest ones as active.

Also, environmental (gamma) radiation affects the larger grains more.

wrote:
UC wrote:
Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
it ages, for a variety of reasons.

What mechanism causes this? Physical or chemical changes in
the emulsion? Do these apply to unexposed film, to exposed film
with a latent image, or both?

Just curious.

wrote:
UC wrote:
Why do you suspect the developer? It's the film. Film gets grainier as
it ages, for a variety of reasons.

What mechanism causes this? Physical or chemical changes in
the emulsion? Do these apply to unexposed film, to exposed film
with a latent image, or both?

Just curious.

Aagin:

Loss of sensitivity, affects the smallest grains the most. Radiation
affects both exposed and unexposed film.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:38:14 +0100, (Ralf R.
Radermacher) wrote:

Hi all,

I've shot a few rolls of Delta 100 which must have been well beyond
their expiration date and processed them using some Ilford DD-X from a
bottle that was open for over a year, although under Protectan. The
developer appeared perfectly normal.

The negs look OK at first sight. Contrast is fine and so is base
density. But the grain appears a lot coarser than what one would expect
from Delta 100.

Any explanation?

Ralf


Both the age of the film and the developer can certainly work
hand-in-hand to cause this. Imagine that some of the sulfite in the
developer is oxidized and no longer reduces granularity. Also the film
may not show a particularly high base fog level however I think if you
measured it with a densitometer that you would find that it is
significantly higher than normal. Higher base fog levels can lead to
grain clumping or popping. I've seen this happen with several films
the worst being a roll of 35mm PXP which was given to me by a local
lab who evidently had several out of date boxes laying around. I
developed it in Microphen in an attempt to minimize speed loss however
the grain was so bad that I couldn't accept the quality of the images
any bigger than 4X6".

==
John - Photographer & Webmaster
www.puresilver.org - www.xs750.net