A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Photo Equipment » Other Photographic Equipment
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 12th 07, 04:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

The other day, I saw the new Sony P&S camera - DSC H3. On top of the
camera, it was indicated that it has a strong built in flash. I went
to search about built-in flash feature in a digital camera at the
dpreview website and found the following:
For P&S digital cameras: Canon G7 has a weak flash, Flash guide of 4m.
Canon S51S is stronger. Sony H3 has a Flash guide no. of 7m, while as
Sony DSC H7 or H9 is the strongest I found for P&S camera - Flash
Guide of 9.8m. Canon SX100 is even worse than the G7/G9 - at only 3m.
Lumix Fz18/FZ8 has a flash guide of 6m, and FZ50 has 7m. Nikon 5100 is
much better than G7/G9 at 8m.
For DSLR: Most cameras with built-in flash has Flash Guide around
11-13m. Canon 5D does not even have a built-in flash. Surprisingly,
Nikon D40 and D40x has flash guide no. of 17m. As comparison, Canon
40D/30D/Xti all have only a flash guide of 12m.
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than the DSLR?
Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger built-in flash like a
DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take picture in
large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc). Could this be improved
by stronger flash? I have always complained in the past that most P&S
cameras have tiny built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot
improve your lighting in indoor shots.
- Anyone tried the built-in flash in Sony H3 or Sony H7 and H9?. Are
they much better than flash in other cameras, particularly the low
ones like Canon G7/SX100? Does this mean that Sony H3/H7/H9 is
superior for taking photo indoors for people in a group than, say
Canon G7/G9? I found that Sony H3 is a good competitor against Canon
G7/G9 or Nikon P5100. It may have less features than G7/G9, but it
makes good quality images and it is cheaper than a G7/G9. It is also
as compact as a G7/G9 or Nikon P5100.
- Is built in flash in Nikon D40x really stronger than flash in a
Canon Xti?
- How much difference are relatively between a Flash Guide of 3m, 7m,
12m and 17m ? I assume that this is all based on ASA100? Does a flash
guide 17m mean that you can get a good coverage of flash to 17m
distance?
- Panasonic Lumix L1 is about the only DSLR camera that has extended
pop-up flash feature (ie. 2 level heights). What is the advantage of
this? Less red-eye images?
- Are there digital cameras (P&S or DSLR) which have two or more modes
of flash strength in their built in flash?
Thanks for the info and discussion.

  #3  
Old November 12th 07, 05:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Data-Point
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:11:32 -0800, wrote:

- Are there digital cameras (P&S or DSLR) which have two or more modes
of flash strength in their built in flash?


I know that the Canon S-series Powershots (P&S) have 3 output levels for the
manual flash setting and -2 to +2 stops in 1/3-stop steps for auto-flash output
levels in all camera's manual or auto exposure modes. Along with those
flash-output options there's so many others in these cameras that it can get a
little confusing at times. 1st curtain, 2nd curtain, slow-sync, auto, manual,
each having their particular settings in each of the various camera modes, Auto
P, Av, Tv, M, Scene modes, etc.

If instead you use the CHDK firmware add-on with them then you have all the
above plus 96 steps per stop of flash-output levels via automated script access.
32 steps per 1/3-stop. Its limits (-/+ number of full stops) has not yet been
determined nor reported. If it follows the same availability of EV choices when
using CHDK-scripts then +/- 4 stops (or more) of light output levels would be
available. (96x8) With that many levels available there comes a time where you
have to ask yourself, just how many do you want or need. For scientific research
image recording where light intensity levels might be paramount to getting the
right data then that amount of choices could be quite useful. I know of no other
cameras that can even come close to having this much adaptability and
capability, other than someone's multi-thousands $ custom optics equipment
sitting in someone's research lab.

  #4  
Old November 12th 07, 05:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:11:32 -0800, aniramca wrote:

The other day, I saw the new Sony P&S camera - DSC H3. On top of the
camera, it was indicated that it has a strong built in flash. I went
to search about built-in flash feature in a digital camera at the
dpreview website and found the following:
For P&S digital cameras: Canon G7 has a weak flash, Flash guide of 4m.
Canon S51S is stronger. Sony H3 has a Flash guide no. of 7m, while as
Sony DSC H7 or H9 is the strongest I found for P&S camera - Flash
Guide of 9.8m. Canon SX100 is even worse than the G7/G9 - at only 3m.
Lumix Fz18/FZ8 has a flash guide of 6m, and FZ50 has 7m. Nikon 5100 is
much better than G7/G9 at 8m.
For DSLR: Most cameras with built-in flash has Flash Guide around
11-13m. Canon 5D does not even have a built-in flash. Surprisingly,
Nikon D40 and D40x has flash guide no. of 17m. As comparison, Canon
40D/30D/Xti all have only a flash guide of 12m.
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than the DSLR?
Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger built-in flash like a
DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take picture in
large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc). Could this be improved
by stronger flash? I have always complained in the past that most P&S
cameras have tiny built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot
improve your lighting in indoor shots.


hotshoe slave


- Anyone tried the built-in flash in Sony H3 or Sony H7 and H9?. Are
they much better than flash in other cameras, particularly the low
ones like Canon G7/SX100? Does this mean that Sony H3/H7/H9 is
superior for taking photo indoors for people in a group than, say
Canon G7/G9? I found that Sony H3 is a good competitor against Canon
G7/G9 or Nikon P5100. It may have less features than G7/G9, but it
makes good quality images and it is cheaper than a G7/G9. It is also
as compact as a G7/G9 or Nikon P5100.
- Is built in flash in Nikon D40x really stronger than flash in a
Canon Xti?
- How much difference are relatively between a Flash Guide of 3m, 7m,
12m and 17m ? I assume that this is all based on ASA100? Does a flash
guide 17m mean that you can get a good coverage of flash to 17m
distance?
- Panasonic Lumix L1 is about the only DSLR camera that has extended
pop-up flash feature (ie. 2 level heights). What is the advantage of
this? Less red-eye images?
- Are there digital cameras (P&S or DSLR) which have two or more modes
of flash strength in their built in flash?
Thanks for the info and discussion.


  #5  
Old November 12th 07, 05:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Trev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

wrote:
The other day, I saw the new Sony P&S camera - DSC H3. On top of the
camera, it was indicated that it has a strong built in flash. I went
to search about built-in flash feature in a digital camera at the
dpreview website and found the following:
For P&S digital cameras: Canon G7 has a weak flash, Flash guide of 4m.
Canon S51S is stronger. Sony H3 has a Flash guide no. of 7m, while as
Sony DSC H7 or H9 is the strongest I found for P&S camera - Flash
Guide of 9.8m. Canon SX100 is even worse than the G7/G9 - at only 3m.
Lumix Fz18/FZ8 has a flash guide of 6m, and FZ50 has 7m. Nikon 5100 is
much better than G7/G9 at 8m.
For DSLR: Most cameras with built-in flash has Flash Guide around
11-13m. Canon 5D does not even have a built-in flash. Surprisingly,
Nikon D40 and D40x has flash guide no. of 17m. As comparison, Canon
40D/30D/Xti all have only a flash guide of 12m.
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than the DSLR?
Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger built-in flash like a
DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take picture in
large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc). Could this be improved
by stronger flash? I have always complained in the past that most P&S
cameras have tiny built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot
improve your lighting in indoor shots.
- Anyone tried the built-in flash in Sony H3 or Sony H7 and H9?. Are
they much better than flash in other cameras, particularly the low
ones like Canon G7/SX100? Does this mean that Sony H3/H7/H9 is
superior for taking photo indoors for people in a group than, say
Canon G7/G9? I found that Sony H3 is a good competitor against Canon
G7/G9 or Nikon P5100. It may have less features than G7/G9, but it
makes good quality images and it is cheaper than a G7/G9. It is also
as compact as a G7/G9 or Nikon P5100.
- Is built in flash in Nikon D40x really stronger than flash in a
Canon Xti?
- How much difference are relatively between a Flash Guide of 3m, 7m,
12m and 17m ? I assume that this is all based on ASA100? Does a flash
guide 17m mean that you can get a good coverage of flash to 17m
distance?
- Panasonic Lumix L1 is about the only DSLR camera that has extended
pop-up flash feature (ie. 2 level heights). What is the advantage of
this? Less red-eye images?
- Are there digital cameras (P&S or DSLR) which have two or more modes
of flash strength in their built in flash?
Thanks for the info and discussion.


Providing where singing from the same hymn sheet of a guide no. in meters at
100 asa It works by dividing the guide no. by the distance from the subject
in meters and gives the required aperture as in 17 m guide / 3 meters = F5.6

--
Trev
You can always tell a Yorkshire man,
But you can't tell him much.


  #6  
Old November 12th 07, 05:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
landon crowly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:29:55 +0000, bugbear
wrote:

wrote:
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than the DSLR?
Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger built-in flash like a
DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take picture in
large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc). Could this be improved
by stronger flash? I have always complained in the past that most P&S
cameras have tiny built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot
improve your lighting in indoor shots.


Unless you have a truly powerful flash, you're doomed;
this pretty much means off camera, and BIG (read heavy).

On camera-flashes are (IMHO) a nice "get a shot"
work rounds, when the alternative is getting nothing,
but most on-camera flashes don't give you good shots:
just snaps.


I despise use of flash as the main source of light for any and all photography.
The on-board flash in any camera is more than enough needed for the occasional
fill-flash touch-ups that I'll allow in my photos. Meaning, they are more flash
than anyone really ever needs. IF they are a worthwhile photographer shooting
real-life scenarios and not working with staged studio shots. Then no
studio-photographer in his right mind would ever use a flash that near the
camera anyway, unless for some garish special-effect.

The only exception I'll allow myself is when trying to document a subject where
there is no available light to work with.
  #7  
Old November 12th 07, 05:34 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
HEMI-Powered
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 591
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

bugbear added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

wrote:
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than
the DSLR? Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger
built-in flash like a DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take
picture in large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc).
Could this be improved by stronger flash? I have always
complained in the past that most P&S cameras have tiny
built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot improve
your lighting in indoor shots.


Unless you have a truly powerful flash, you're doomed;
this pretty much means off camera, and BIG (read heavy).

On camera-flashes are (IMHO) a nice "get a shot"
work rounds, when the alternative is getting nothing,
but most on-camera flashes don't give you good shots:
just snaps.


I would agree with you. By analogy, I view the built-in flash on
my Rebel XT to be about the equivalent of the old flash cubes on
Kodak Instamatic cameras, useful mainly for short-distance
snapshots. However, I do not dismiss or diminish the value of my
feeble flash. In fact, I will often sling my Rebel sans my 430EX
over my shoulder with just the little kit lens on it when I go
someplace. One never knows when a photo op might appear, but I
don't want to lug in excess of 3-4 pounds and a huge chunk of
"iron" around with me unless I KNOW that I'm going to be shooting
something specific, like a indoor car show, museum, or the like
or even an outdoor car show without flash. And, if I take my
camera to my daughter's house and grab a few candids of her
playing with her dog and cat, a minimal size and weight system
works just fine and distance never exceed 10-12 feet (but if they
do, I do an effective doubling of the GN by upping ISO from 100
to 200).

I don't think ANY on camera flash would have improved
this:

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...bar/?action=vi
ew&current=bar1.jpg (check the EXIF)

BugBear (big fan of high ISO, and available light)

--
HP, aka Jerry
  #8  
Old November 12th 07, 06:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Pat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 517
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

On Nov 12, 10:11 am, wrote:
The other day, I saw the new Sony P&S camera - DSC H3. On top of the
camera, it was indicated that it has a strong built in flash. I went
to search about built-in flash feature in a digital camera at the
dpreview website and found the following:
For P&S digital cameras: Canon G7 has a weak flash, Flash guide of 4m.
Canon S51S is stronger. Sony H3 has a Flash guide no. of 7m, while as
Sony DSC H7 or H9 is the strongest I found for P&S camera - Flash
Guide of 9.8m. Canon SX100 is even worse than the G7/G9 - at only 3m.
Lumix Fz18/FZ8 has a flash guide of 6m, and FZ50 has 7m. Nikon 5100 is
much better than G7/G9 at 8m.
For DSLR: Most cameras with built-in flash has Flash Guide around
11-13m. Canon 5D does not even have a built-in flash. Surprisingly,
Nikon D40 and D40x has flash guide no. of 17m. As comparison, Canon
40D/30D/Xti all have only a flash guide of 12m.
- Why P&S cameras have relatively weaker built-in flash than the DSLR?
Could P&S cameras be designed to have stronger built-in flash like a
DSLR?
- I noticed that my P&S camera usually is too weak to take picture in
large indoors (restaurant, meeting halls, etc). Could this be improved
by stronger flash? I have always complained in the past that most P&S
cameras have tiny built-in flash, and without a hot-shoe, you cannot
improve your lighting in indoor shots.
- Anyone tried the built-in flash in Sony H3 or Sony H7 and H9?. Are
they much better than flash in other cameras, particularly the low
ones like Canon G7/SX100? Does this mean that Sony H3/H7/H9 is
superior for taking photo indoors for people in a group than, say
Canon G7/G9? I found that Sony H3 is a good competitor against Canon
G7/G9 or Nikon P5100. It may have less features than G7/G9, but it
makes good quality images and it is cheaper than a G7/G9. It is also
as compact as a G7/G9 or Nikon P5100.
- Is built in flash in Nikon D40x really stronger than flash in a
Canon Xti?
- How much difference are relatively between a Flash Guide of 3m, 7m,
12m and 17m ? I assume that this is all based on ASA100? Does a flash
guide 17m mean that you can get a good coverage of flash to 17m
distance?
- Panasonic Lumix L1 is about the only DSLR camera that has extended
pop-up flash feature (ie. 2 level heights). What is the advantage of
this? Less red-eye images?
- Are there digital cameras (P&S or DSLR) which have two or more modes
of flash strength in their built in flash?
Thanks for the info and discussion.


Why not put a big flash built into a camera? Think of it this way:
look at what a big flash looks like. It's a sensor down low,
batteries in the middle and a flash on top. That's pretty much it.
You never see the sensor on top and the flash on the bottom. It's
because all kinds of bad things happen when you put a big flash near
the lens. In fact for weddings and such, everyone uses an arm to get
the flash-head higher yet. That's the first reason.

The second reason is cost. Say you have a $200 p&s with a big flash
built in. But a EX580 goes for something like $500. So you now have
a $700 p&s camera, You've just prices yourself out of any sales.

  #9  
Old November 12th 07, 09:19 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.misc
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:22:52 GMT, r.p.d.'s well known sock puppet
landon crowly crowed lowly:

I despise . . .


We know, we know. The list of things that you've told us that you
despise is immense and is sure to continue expanding. Perhaps some
day it will approach the size of your ego, Biddy.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Built-in flash in P&S digital and DSLR cameras [email protected] Digital Photography 48 November 18th 07 06:01 AM
Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature [email protected] Digital Photography 14 September 13th 07 11:10 PM
Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature [email protected] Other Photographic Equipment 14 September 13th 07 11:10 PM
built-in flash for D50? nikonnewbie Digital SLR Cameras 4 June 7th 06 01:57 PM
which cameras are not built in china ? Bhup 35mm Photo Equipment 69 March 23rd 05 06:05 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.