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#1
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economy in developing paper
ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a
massive develop soup. I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? lookin for suggestions!! Stefano -- Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto! |
#2
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stefano bramato wrote:
ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? Agfa Multicontrast developer. I'm not sure how expensive it is in Europe but it's almost free here. Nick |
#3
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:50:40 GMT, stefano bramato
wrote: ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? You might try Ethol LPD. I use the liquid with Ilford MGFBWT with good results. It also stores well after dilution if kept in a full bottle. Chris Ellinger Ann Arbor, MI USA http://www.ellingerphoto.com |
#4
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:50:40 GMT, stefano bramato
wrote: ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? You might try Ethol LPD. I use the liquid with Ilford MGFBWT with good results. It also stores well after dilution if kept in a full bottle. Chris Ellinger Ann Arbor, MI USA http://www.ellingerphoto.com |
#5
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stefano bramato wrote:
ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? lookin for suggestions!! The most economical paper developer would likely to one you mix yourself. The formula for D-72 was published more than 70 years ago, and Dektol is just a commercialized version of D-72. As I recall, D-72 contains only metol, sodium sulfite, and an alkali (I don't recall if it's sodium carbonate, borax, or sodium metaborate). None of these are particularly toxic, or expensive, and all should be reasonably available even in Italy (via European suppliers, of course). Here in the United States, $25 worth of raw chemicals would be expected to produce developer that would cost around $150 commercially; as an added benefit, if you have a good scale you can mix just enough to fill a tray instead of a liter or five liters of stock solution, so you don't have waste from shelf life expiration. -- I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954 Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. |
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Donald Qualls wrote:
The most economical paper developer would likely to one you mix yourself. The formula for D-72 was published more than 70 years ago, It's actually not that easy to save money on mixing your own. It's great if you make up non-commerical stuff. Or if you need non-standard sizes. Or for making up stuff already diluted. But it's easier to buy the commerical stuff and unless you're buying the small packages you might be saving money. Or if you're throwing out a bunch of stuff because it's gone old. Not saying you can't save money with mix your own but it's not the reason I'd do it. Just buying the big package will save you alot more money usually. Nick |
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:16:15 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote: stefano bramato wrote: ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? lookin for suggestions!! The most economical paper developer would likely to one you mix yourself. The formula for D-72 was published more than 70 years ago, and Dektol is just a commercialized version of D-72. As I recall, D-72 contains only metol, sodium sulfite, and an alkali (I don't recall if it's sodium carbonate, borax, or sodium metaborate). Did you forget Hydroquinone? I seem to remember HQ in that formula, but absent from the "soft" formulae: Selectol-Soft, etc. None of these are particularly toxic, or expensive, and all should be reasonably available even in Italy (via European suppliers, of course). Here in the United States, $25 worth of raw chemicals would be expected to produce developer that would cost around $150 commercially; as an added benefit, if you have a good scale you can mix just enough to fill a tray instead of a liter or five liters of stock solution, so you don't have waste from shelf life expiration. In any event, I second the thrust of your recommendation. Regards Robert Vervoordt, MFA |
#8
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"stefano bramato" wrote in message t... I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? I just started using it and love it. I also (via this ng) have heard of--and tried--using Rodinal as a paper developer. It worked rather well at a 1:20 mix. YMMV |
#9
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"Donald Qualls" wrote in message . com... stefano bramato wrote: ok friends, I always develop in dektol but this is a time that I use a massive develop soup. I was searching for more economy developer, I was thinking about agfa Neutol. Anyone has tryed this developer (sounds good)? Any other suggestions for more economy in developer? lookin for suggestions!! The most economical paper developer would likely to one you mix yourself. The formula for D-72 was published more than 70 years ago, and Dektol is just a commercialized version of D-72. As I recall, D-72 contains only metol, sodium sulfite, and an alkali (I don't recall if it's sodium carbonate, borax, or sodium metaborate). None of these are particularly toxic, or expensive, and all should be reasonably available even in Italy (via European suppliers, of course). Here in the United States, $25 worth of raw chemicals would be expected to produce developer that would cost around $150 commercially; as an added benefit, if you have a good scale you can mix just enough to fill a tray instead of a liter or five liters of stock solution, so you don't have waste from shelf life expiration. -- I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954 The cost of mix it yourself developer depends on what you have to pay for the ingredients. A reasonably good scale is helpful but not an absolute necessity. Formulas are available on the web at several sites. Packaged developers usually contain some sequestering agents to help with hard water. Typically EDTA in one form or another or Sodium hexametaphosphate (Calgon). If you use distilled water or boil the water you don't need the sequestering agents. Here are a couple of standard formulas. Kodak D-72 is the equivalent of Dektol. Very similar developer formulas were published by every maker of printing paper over the last 70 years or so as suggested above. Kodak D-72 Stock Solution Water (at 125F or 52C) 500.0 ml Metol 3.1 grams Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 45.0 grams Hydroquinone 12.0 grams Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 67.5 grams Potassium Bromide 1.9 grams Water to make 1.0 liter If Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated is used the amount is 79 grams. For use dilute 1:1 to 1:4 It is helpful in mixing any formula to use water that has been boiled for about five minutes and allowed to stand and cool. Boiling serves three purposes: it removes dissolved gasses; it causes some dissolved carbonates to come out of solution and be deposited on the vessel; it coagulates any organic matter which will precipitate in the vessel. When cool carefully decant or syphon off the clear water. Mix the ingredients in the order given. This is important, for instance, Metol will not dissolve in concentrated solutions of sulfite so must be mixed first. It is helpful to keep the water temperture up to 125F during mixing. Do not use hotter water: if hot enough it will cause the sulfite to decompose. Around 130F is the limit. The amount of bromide given above is the minimum. It can be increased to as much as 12 grams per liter. This will result in slower development and warmer tones. Adding a small amount of Benzotriazole will shift the tones toward the cold side. Kodak D-52 is the same as Kodak Selectol. It is a less active developer than the above meant for warmer tones on warm tone paper. Kodak D-52 Stock Solution Water (at 125F or 52C) 500.0 ml Metol 1.5 grams Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 22.5 grams Hydroquinone 6.3 grams Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 15.0 grams Potassium Bromide 1.5 grams Water to make 1.0 liter If Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated is used the amount is 17.5 grams. For use dilute 1:1 Again the bromide is a minimum, it can be increased to around 12 grams per liter for warmer tones. Kodak never published the formula for Selectol-Soft but from its MSDS it is probably nearly identical to Ansco/Agfa 120 Ansco/Agfa 120 Soft Working Paper Developer Stock Solution Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml Metol 12.3 grams Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 36.0 grams Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated 36.0 grams Potassium Bromide 1.8 grams Water to make 1.0 liter If Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous is used the amount is 23 grams For use dilute 1:1 to 1:2 Note that the variation in image color with the developer is minimal for RC papers containing a developer. Some Ilford papers do not contain incorporated developer and develop like traditional fiber papers. Most RC papers do have incorporated developer to allow their use in rapid access "activation" processors. Note that Kodak formulas call for "Elon". Elon was Kodak's trade name for the chemical more often called Metol, they are the same thing. There are other formulas for somewhat more active developers meant for cold tones on contact type papers. These are similar to D-72 but have more carbonate and a somewhat greater ratio of hydroquinone to metol. Kodak D-73 or Agfa/Ansco 103 is an example of this type. Arm & Hammer Washing Soda is Sodium carbonate, monohydrated in sufficiently pure form for photographic purposes. Note that the amounts of the ingredients are not very critical. While specified in tenths of a gram rounding to the nearest gram is good enough. More notes: Generally, Chlorine in water will not affect photo chemicals. In any case it is driven off by boiling and is destroyed by thiosufate when mixing fixing baths. Cloramines, which are replacing Chlorine in many drinking water supplies, also has no effect on photo chemicals (at least B&W chemicals). It is NOT removed by boiling but is removed by an activated charcoal filter like a Brita filter. Water should also be filtered before use, preferably before boiling if you are going to boil it. Coffee filters work fine. Suggestions about the water are also valid for packaged chemicals and for water used for diluting solutions. Also, when mixing either do it yourself or packaged formulas avoid beating air into the solution. This will extend the life a bit. Stir enough to keep the powders in suspension until dissolved but not so vigorously that you get air into it. Occasionaly you will get a residue of crystals in the solution especially with packaged chemicals. This is often from carbonates in the water combining with something in the developer. Usually these crystals will go into solution as the mixed developer cools down to usable temperature. If not a run through a coffee filter will get rid of them. When I post formulas they are from a source as close to the original as I can get. I have both original Kodak and Agfa/Ansco publications as well as old editions of the _Photo-Lab-Index_ which has proven to be reliable. There may or may not be any advantage to mixing your own stuff but a relatively small collection of chemicals will allow you to experiment with many variations of developers as well as making fixng baths and all sorts of toners. Not very many toners are available in packaged form any more so there often isn't much choice but to make your own. The other reason is that its fun to do and you can amaze your friends by showing them your scientific chemistry lab. Have fun:-) -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#10
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stefano bramato
Neutol should do. Likely you will have results very similar to Dektol. Parcel it into small bottles and cap well. Consider the use of small volumes of developer for print developing. Eight ounces of solution should be plenty for 8x10s. Also consider using the concentrate at a higher than usuall dilution. Dan |
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