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#11
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
On 2012-05-14 08:31:58 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:
Mxsmanic writes: Wolfgang Weisselberg writes: Niche product, needs filters on the lens (instead of being able to do that in post) which negates the high ISO partially or fully. What filters are needed on the lens? Color-rendering filters; like the typical yellow-orange-red used to darken skies for example. I've stopped carrying those because I always capture a color image, and if I'm making a B&W print I can get those effects in post from the color data. But the Monochrome M doesn't capture the color data, so.... Exactly! -- Regards, Savageduck |
#12
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
On 2012-05-14 08:32:52 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:
Mxsmanic writes: nospam writes: usual ones for b/w are red or yellow, but also polarizer and others. Why? I never use filters for black and white, and the results are just fine. You're weird :-). No kidding! Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely* common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for that matter. Yup! Always was, and I used them through all of my formative years, until I started shooting color around 1971. Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really dramatic low levels with a red filter. Yup! I guess he hadn't consulted with "Mxsmanic" to learn that he was wasting his time. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#13
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
Mxsmanic writes:
David Dyer-Bennet writes: You're weird :-). I like to record things as they are. Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely* common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for that matter. Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really dramatic low levels with a red filter. They were not shooting things as they are. News flash: Things are not black and white! -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
#14
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
In rec.photo.digital Mxsmanic wrote:
David Dyer-Bennet writes: You're weird :-). I like to record things as they are. Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely* common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for that matter. Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really dramatic low levels with a red filter. They were not shooting things as they are. You can't represent coloured things as they are in monochrome. Suppose you were drawing a landscape with pen and ink wash. You will draw a lot of black lines round the edges of things. But there are no such black lines in a photographic image of the scene. That's just one of many possible conventions for representing what you see. Now you come to the deep blue sky with massed clouds varying from white to gray. There is a striking colour contrast between sky and clouds. But almost none in luminance between the darker clouds and the blue sky. So how do you represent this in black and white? Lots of artists would choose to darken the sky to represent the contrast. Monochrome photographers who use red or orange filters to darken blue skies are simply following the same representational convention to represent what they see to be there. -- Chris Malcolm |
#15
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
Mxsmanic writes:
David Dyer-Bennet writes: News flash: Things are not black and white! Color is not always relevant, and it can be a distraction. I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits. But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot B&W, and espect to be taken seriously. -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
#16
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
Mxsmanic writes:
David Dyer-Bennet writes: I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits. But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot B&W, and espect to be taken seriously. Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it, but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information; shooting with a filter changes it. I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one. -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
#17
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
On 2012-05-15 14:47:02 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:
Mxsmanic writes: David Dyer-Bennet writes: I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits. But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot B&W, and espect to be taken seriously. Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it, but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information; shooting with a filter changes it. I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one. Use of physical filters has, and always will be subtractive. Stack R, G, & B filters and check on the result. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#18
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
Savageduck writes:
On 2012-05-15 14:47:02 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said: Mxsmanic writes: David Dyer-Bennet writes: I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits. But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot B&W, and espect to be taken seriously. Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it, but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information; shooting with a filter changes it. I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one. Use of physical filters has, and always will be subtractive. Stack R, G, & B filters and check on the result. Yes, of course it is, and that doesn't change anything. Removing some light can make two things that looked "different" originally look "the same". -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
#19
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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...
Mxsmanic writes:
David Dyer-Bennet writes: I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one. The filter removes information selectively--information that is fundamental to the image. You use a red filter because you want to make the sky artificially dark, not because you want to keep its luminance natural. In fact, the removal of the information is fundamental to that image. As we have already established, not everybody agrees on what "useful" uses of color-rendering filters are, so blanket statements about why people use them are probably untrue. Furthermore, people doing something other than art photography may make VERY different choices -- forensic and scientific photography for example. -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
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