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#1
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Moiré interference patterns
First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get
gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#2
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Moiré interference patterns
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:33:10 +0000, Terry Pinnell wrote:
First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? Terry, filters exist that take the mathematical approach to remove moiré patterns entirely. The last time I encountered such a filter was when I still used a program called Picture Publisher by Micrografx. This program had an excellent moiré filter which used clever mathematics to obtain a precise model of the moiré pattern and deducted it perfectly without losing any visible sharpness. Unfortunately I haven't seen anything like it ever since, and I had to drop Picture Publisher because of its excessive number of defects. The moiré filter in Paint Shop Pro is a joke in comparison. It is only a soft filter that essentially doesn't remove the moiré at all, it just reduces it along with any other high frequencies by applying a low pass filter, making the whole picture soft. I would also like to know a third-party tool that does what Picture Publisher did. Hans-Georg -- No mail, please. |
#3
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Moiré interference patterns
Terry Pinnell wrote:
First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? Turning the picture at a slight angle when scanning can reduce the problem. |
#4
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Moiré interference patterns
calendar scanning should not get moiré pattern. I think it should be the
screen dots pattern which can be removed by de-screen in your Epson scanner advance setting menu. "Terry Pinnell" wrote in message ... First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#5
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Moiré interference patterns
"kctan" wrote:
calendar scanning should not get moiré pattern. I think it should be the screen dots pattern which can be removed by de-screen in your Epson scanner advance setting menu. Is there such a feature? If so, as I said, so far I haven't found it. Could you tell me exactly where it is please? See also my other replies, re apparent difference between viewers. BTW, why do you say "Calendar scanning should not get moiré pattern"? -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#7
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Moiré interference patterns
Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:33:10 +0000, Terry Pinnell wrote: First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? Terry, filters exist that take the mathematical approach to remove moiré patterns entirely. The last time I encountered such a filter was when I still used a program called Picture Publisher by Micrografx. This program had an excellent moiré filter which used clever mathematics to obtain a precise model of the moiré pattern and deducted it perfectly without losing any visible sharpness. Unfortunately I haven't seen anything like it ever since, and I had to drop Picture Publisher because of its excessive number of defects. The moiré filter in Paint Shop Pro is a joke in comparison. It is only a soft filter that essentially doesn't remove the moiré at all, it just reduces it along with any other high frequencies by applying a low pass filter, making the whole picture soft. I would also like to know a third-party tool that does what Picture Publisher did. Thanks Hans-Georg. Since my post, I've discovered something very puzzling. By default, I was viewing the finished JPG scan in IrfanView. That showed the bad patterns. And they remained with various DPI changes in Epson Scan (300, 400, 600, 150, 96). But I happened to open one in PaintShop Pro 8 (in order to see what filters I might use), and the patterns were gone! This is with both programs filling the screen with the image to about the same size. I also found something else that I haven't figured out. Those first scans were done by opening Epson Scan direct and using its Professional Mode. But just now I instead tried opening Smart Panel and then selecting Scan & Save. That doesn't present any options, it just appears to scan using Fully Auto mode (and takes a fair while, presumably because it's scanning the entire area, because there's no Preview allowing cropping). But the resulting JPG was not patterned! Any help getting my mind around these would be appreciated please. -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#8
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Moiré interference patterns
Marvin wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote: First time I've come across this effect. Scanning a calendar, I get gross 'interference patterns'. Understand they're more correctly called Moiré patterns. I'm disappointed that my Epson Perfection (!) 2480 doesn't seem to have any setting to remove them at source. (Gather some scanners have a 'de-screening' facility to do this.) What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? Turning the picture at a slight angle when scanning can reduce the problem. Thanks, I'll experiment with that when I get these other puzzles sorted! -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#9
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Moiré interference patterns
Wayne wrote:
In article , says... What is best way to handle this please? Is it a matter of scanning at say 600 dpi and then using an image editor to reduce the size? Yes. Scan images in printed material at least at 300 dpi, and at 600 dpi if you can stand it (if the image is small enough it is bearable). Moire is digital aliasing, caused by scanning resolution insufficient to resolve the detail. The dots are the detail, and the dots are typically (often) 150 dpi, which therefore theoretically requires at least 300 dpi to resolve them (Nyquist). 600 dpi is better. There are other workarounds, but the best solution is to increase the scanning resolution, and then resample it to any smaller desired size. Thanks Wayne. Just tried one (a photo of about 5" x 8") at 600 dpi then halved its size in IrfanView and it did indeed make a big improvement. But please see my reply to Hans-Georg. I'm now confused as to whether this patterning is *real*, or just a flaw in my usually excellent IrfanView. Here are a couple of screen shots showing the comparison. Both scans were at 240 dpi. I then used Print Scrn to capture both and paste as a new image in PSP 8. As you see, the view in IrfanView shows the patterns, but PSP 8 does not (or vet much diminished). http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...-IrfanView.jpg http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...hot240-PSP.jpg -- Terry, West Sussex, UK |
#10
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Moiré interference patterns
In article ,
says... Thanks Wayne. Just tried one (a photo of about 5" x 8") at 600 dpi then halved its size in IrfanView and it did indeed make a big improvement. But please see my reply to Hans-Georg. I'm now confused as to whether this patterning is *real*, or just a flaw in my usually excellent IrfanView. Here are a couple of screen shots showing the comparison. Both scans were at 240 dpi. I then used Print Scrn to capture both and paste as a new image in PSP 8. As you see, the view in IrfanView shows the patterns, but PSP 8 does not (or vet much diminished). http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...-IrfanView.jpg http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...hot240-PSP.jpg You always want to judge images ONLY at 100% actual size on the monitor screen (even if you must scroll around on it). If you scanned at 600 dpi, it is a huge image, but I think you will see that pattern is false and not actually present in the image when you view it at 100% actual size. (IrfanView menu View - Actual Size). Viewing programs only do a quick and dirty (nearest neighbor) resample to make large images smaller to fit the screen window (fast and immediate, but relatively poor quality), and it is not unusual to see moire effects on the video screen, from even real photos, but especially from the dot patterns in scanned printed images. Photo editors do this in different ways, some a little better than others, but none are the same result as actually viewing the actual real pixels, which are seen only when at 100% actual size. If this smaller size is what you want to view on the screen, then use the resample menu to make a smaller copy that is the right size for viewing. That resample menu is slower, not quite immediate, but wont create that false pattern, because it uses better (slower) resampling methods. -- Wayne http://www.scantips.com "A few scanning tips" |
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