Moire Concern

I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras : I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

From what I gather, and this moire effect falls into this category as
well --- Both cameras are nice. you will have zealots on both sides, but
they are so close it really does not matter. They each have cons....
Personally, I like the Nikon, just because it reminds me more of my Elan
II-e in size etc. But, I don't have any lenses for it, it costs more, and
even though it does not matter, it has less MPs. The Rebel XT is attractive
because I can swap lenses, has more MPs.... I gather they are both the same
quality etc.... Again, different pros and cons, but very close units.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

DelphiCoder wrote:

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

I'd say it "almost never" occurs, since after nearly a year with the D70 I
have never seen it, but some people have reported seeing it from time to
time.

I'd say, judging from the reports of the people who *have* seen it, that
even for those it does happen to, it happens so infrequently that it's
not something you should even give a second thought to.

--
Jeremy |

"DelphiCoder" wrote in message
news0fbe.307$iZ1.145@trnddc03...
I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras :
I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

It's not a problem worth worrying about unless you are considering an SD10
which has no anti-alias filter.

From what I gather, and this moire effect falls into this category as
well --- Both cameras are nice. you will have zealots on both sides, but
they are so close it really does not matter. They each have cons....
Personally, I like the Nikon, just because it reminds me more of my Elan
II-e in size etc. But, I don't have any lenses for it, it costs more, and
even though it does not matter, it has less MPs. The Rebel XT is
attractive
because I can swap lenses, has more MPs.... I gather they are both the
same
quality etc.... Again, different pros and cons, but very close units.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

It's caused by discrete sampling and it's called aliasing. The easiest
example of aliasing is perhaps the old western movies where the wagon wheels
seem to stop and even turn backwards. Spatial aliasing is when the line
pitch of an image approaches the sensor pitch of the CCD or CMOS sensor.
You end up with information that is false ... aliases ... that produce
jaggy edges in the image (also called Moiré patterns). Canon and Nikon and
others have an anti-alias filter on top of the sensor to reduce the aliased
artifacts (also called blur filters). It's a fairly technical subject but
easy enough to understand if you want to dig into it. Or, just ignore it as
the camera folks are on top of it.

DelphiCoder wrote:

I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying
to decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my
Elan II-e. Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in
digital cameras : I

Get the D-Rebel, D-Rebel-XT or 20D as may fit your
needs and certainly your lenses.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how
often it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

If you shoot fine patterned subjects a lot, you will get moiré
regardless of camera make. If you're normal, and shoot a variety of
subjects you won't see it except from time to time.

Cheers,
Alan




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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

"DelphiCoder" wrote in message
news0fbe.307$iZ1.145@trnddc03...
I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras :
I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

Not a big enough problem to worry about, unless you are considering a
digital SLR that lacks an anti-alias filter, and the only model I know of
where this is the case is the 3.42 megapixel Sigma SD10.

Either the Rebel XT or D70 will be fine. There are trade-offs. The Canon
appears to have a better balance of moire versus sharpness (the more
agressive the anti-alias filter the less moire, but the less sharpness) than
the D70. The Canon is higher resolution. The Canon has mirror lock-up and an
available vertical grip. OTOH, the D70 seems to have a less plasticy feel,
it just feels like it is a better quality product.

If your Canon lens collection is worth a lot, then the XT will be the
obvious choice. You may want to splurge on the 20D if you can get it for a
good price. I got it, with the kit lens, for less than $1300.

See http://digitalslrinfo.com for more information.

You're buying a DSLR partly because you can change lenses. If you already
have Canon lenses that fit I'm not sure why the problem making the decision.
I got the D70 because I already had a bunch of Nikon lenses.

I've seen a bit of moiré in the LCD images on the camera, but never in a
photo beyond that.


"DelphiCoder" wrote in message
news0fbe.307$iZ1.145@trnddc03...
I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras :
I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

From what I gather, and this moire effect falls into this category as
well --- Both cameras are nice. you will have zealots on both sides, but
they are so close it really does not matter. They each have cons....
Personally, I like the Nikon, just because it reminds me more of my Elan
II-e in size etc. But, I don't have any lenses for it, it costs more, and
even though it does not matter, it has less MPs. The Rebel XT is
attractive
because I can swap lenses, has more MPs.... I gather they are both the
same
quality etc.... Again, different pros and cons, but very close units.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

I noticed the moire patterns only once on my D70. It was a shot of the
mountains in the background and a couple of houses in the foreground.
One house in the distance had some shiny metal railings in front of it
that caused a moire like pattern. It only showed up when I looked at
the photo at 100% on my computer monitor, but not when I printed it
out... The detail was supressed due to the fact that the printout was
relatively small (6"x4").

I can't image that any other camera would have done 'much' beter. If
the effect is not to pronounced, some fancy Photoshop skills would
solve the problem. But it doesn't happen that often. I haven't noticed
the effect on the texture of clothing yet.

Like Steven M. Scharf said, the D70 has a less plasticy feel than the
Rebel XT, which was one of the reasons I bought it.

"DelphiCoder" wrote in message
news0fbe.307$iZ1.145@trnddc03...
I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras :
I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

From what I gather, and this moire effect falls into this category as
well --- Both cameras are nice. you will have zealots on both sides, but
they are so close it really does not matter. They each have cons....
Personally, I like the Nikon, just because it reminds me more of my Elan
II-e in size etc. But, I don't have any lenses for it, it costs more, and
even though it does not matter, it has less MPs. The Rebel XT is
attractive
because I can swap lenses, has more MPs.... I gather they are both the
same
quality etc.... Again, different pros and cons, but very close units.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

---------------------
I'll give you some simple guides to avoid this problem - and incidentally
the D70 is the worst of the Nikon range at delivering it.

Never shoot anyone in a herringbone suite.
Never shoot Venetian blinds as a back drop unless the slats are horizontal.
Never shoot a corrugated iron roof.
Avoid power polls with lots of cables on them.
Don't include picket fences in the distance in your shots.

If you can manage to avoid all of these, it won't matter which camera you
decide to buy. I have one of the spoken about SD Sigma cameras and although
I got Moire in many of the initial shots I made... After a while I
discovered what to avoid and never had any problems with it. I rarely use
the camera now but the lessons I learnt about digital deviations, mean that
at image 68,000 on a 1D Mk II, and Image 28,000 on a 20D, I have never seen
the effect.

Douglas

In my experience it is extremely easy to get moire with the D70 and often
hard to avoid. However most often the moire seen on an enlarged part of the
image on a monitor is not a factor in the final print.

If one has Canon lenses already then to me the decision is a no-brainer and
I really do not understand why you would consider buying a Nikon. I do not
see any significant advantages to the Nikon dSLR that offsets the price of
replacing existing good lenses.

If one has no vested interest in either Nikon or Canon as of today I find it
hard to justify buying into the Nikon system. It is my closet full of lenses
that keeps me with Nikon.

"DelphiCoder" wrote in message
news0fbe.307$iZ1.145@trnddc03...
I have been reading through this newsgroup, racking my brain trying to
decide on a Rebel-XT or Nikon D70s. I have canon lenses from my Elan II-e.
Then today I read about moire (sp) being a problem in digital cameras :
I
can't determine if it is more common in one model or the other, or if it
just happens every now and then.

From what I gather, and this moire effect falls into this category as
well --- Both cameras are nice. you will have zealots on both sides, but
they are so close it really does not matter. They each have cons....
Personally, I like the Nikon, just because it reminds me more of my Elan
II-e in size etc. But, I don't have any lenses for it, it costs more, and
even though it does not matter, it has less MPs. The Rebel XT is
attractive
because I can swap lenses, has more MPs.... I gather they are both the
same
quality etc.... Again, different pros and cons, but very close units.

Anyway, if I could here from someone about the moire effect, and how often
it really occurs, I would appreciate it!

We often see it occur on the sleeves of the RAF No.1 uniform (That's using a
Nikon D1x by the way.) - it's like the digital equivalent of Newton's Rings!
You tend not to notice it in the prints though.

Craig.