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  #41  
Old June 28th 04, 10:48 PM
TP
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Default [SI] I miss...

"The Dave©" wrote:

Yet, in the time it took to write that post, you could've sent in an
archive shot showing all of us just how "great" of a photographer you
really are.



I'm not a great photographer, and probably never will be. But I do
work hard to improve.

The SI participants, on the other hand, seem to revel in their sheer
collective mediocrity to the extent that the SI just gets worse every
time. It wasn't always so; some of the shots for the first few SIs
were excellent, and others showed great promise. But the capable
contributors left, and those left behind have truly lost the plot.

"Sabineellen" at least had the courage to state that the last crop of
nonsense had largely missed the point. Maybe this is a turning point
and the SI will at last start to improve? But it won't improve if so
many of the participants continue to treat a brief with such contempt
as they did this time.


  #42  
Old June 28th 04, 10:55 PM
TP
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Default [SI] I miss...

Alan Browne wrote:

Won't happen for the simplest of reasons: He has

NOTHING to show.



As I have said many times, I have nothing to show to you, Alan.

If you had a shred of ability as a photographer, I might respect your
opinions, but as your contributions to the SI clearly show, you don't.


  #43  
Old June 28th 04, 11:04 PM
TP
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Default [SI] I miss...

Alan Browne wrote:

BTW, pick up a copy of National Geographic. Show where most of
the images, most especially those illustrating culture, are not
accompanied by narrative or explanation.



Where does it say in the SI brief "shoot a photo to illustrate an
article about ....."?

I'd like to know, because to me it is clear that the SI is about
photos that tell a story. Pictures that might speak a thousand words,
or merely convey a simple message.

But you treat the SI with contempt. You make absolutely no effort to
satisfy the brief. You take the same old Alan Browne type of crap
snapshot, and the you have the barefaced cheek to try to pass it off
as something related to the brief by writing as much boring prose as
you think will get you off the hook.

"Local Culture"? For once, this was actually a well written brief,
and what do you do? You turn out a snapshot of a house and then
proceed to explain in the most enormous detail a message that your
shot so signally failed to convey.

Face up to it, Alan, you can't hack it, and every SI you enter merely
reinforces the point. But you think you're simply *wonderful*, and
therein lies the problem.


  #44  
Old June 28th 04, 11:46 PM
Alan Browne
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Default [SI] I miss...

TP wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

BTW, pick up a copy of National Geographic. Show where most of
the images, most especially those illustrating culture, are not
accompanied by narrative or explanation.




Where does it say in the SI brief "shoot a photo to illustrate an
article about ....."?


Where does it say not to?

I'd like to know, because to me it is clear that the SI is about
photos that tell a story. Pictures that might speak a thousand words,
or merely convey a simple message.


Since you do not participate in the SI, your opinion and beliefs
about what "the SI is about" is hardly relevant. The SI is for
and by the participants and therefore as a non-participating
sideline yapper, you really cannot hold any opinion about it that
I (and many others) will bother to respect. You can of course
change that by posting in reply to the SI.

But you treat the SI with contempt. You make absolutely no effort to
satisfy the brief. You take the same old Alan Browne type of crap
snapshot, and the you have the barefaced cheek to try to pass it off
as something related to the brief by writing as much boring prose as
you think will get you off the hook.


As some SI participants do, and I usually do, I post some
information about the photos I take. I've done this on about
half of the submissions.


"Local Culture"? For once, this was actually a well written brief,
and what do you do? You turn out a snapshot of a house and then
proceed to explain in the most enormous detail a message that your
shot so signally failed to convey.


If so well written why didn'y you submit a photo TP? You are
such a fake, it is beyond laughable.

Face up to it, Alan, you can't hack it, and every SI you enter merely
reinforces the point. But you think you're simply *wonderful*, and
therein lies the problem.


Horse manure, TP. You can twist, and you can turn, but until you
post images you are nothing but a mongrel yapping and making
noise. I never made claims about any of my images in any regard.
You have THE problem not me. There is one solution: post your
photography. Of course you DID post some photos a few years ago,
and you were laughed at for it, weren't you?


  #45  
Old June 29th 04, 01:09 AM
Al Denelsbeck
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] I miss...

TP wrote in
:

Alan Browne wrote:

BTW, pick up a copy of National Geographic. Show where most of
the images, most especially those illustrating culture, are not
accompanied by narrative or explanation.



Where does it say in the SI brief "shoot a photo to illustrate an
article about ....."?

I'd like to know, because to me it is clear that the SI is about
photos that tell a story. Pictures that might speak a thousand words,
or merely convey a simple message.


You might actually be interested in knowing that National Geographic
was exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the mandate, and my wording is
pretty clear about it.


But you treat the SI with contempt. You make absolutely no effort to
satisfy the brief. You take the same old Alan Browne type of crap
snapshot, and the you have the barefaced cheek to try to pass it off
as something related to the brief by writing as much boring prose as
you think will get you off the hook.

"Local Culture"? For once, this was actually a well written brief,
and what do you do? You turn out a snapshot of a house and then
proceed to explain in the most enormous detail a message that your
shot so signally failed to convey.


While I don't really feel you, Tony, would take the slightest bit of
time to absorb this, there are other people reading these posts, so I'm
going to take the opportunity to address this point. And I've said this all
before, too...

The Shoot-In is an opportunity to try your hand at an assignment, not
your own specialty. It gives a deadline, and it varies widely. Those that
want the challenge can take it - those that either don't want to, or got a
photo that they don't feel is up to snuff, don't have to submit. There's no
pressure to perform.

Some participants, yours truly among them and I more than suspect
Alan as well, make it a point to submit as often as possible. They treat it
as a greater challenge, not to shy away from any topic, no matter what. And
they duly take the comments that come up when their images don't
necessarily cut it. From my own standpoint, it's one of the reasons I
encourage commentary - I actually WANT to hear detailed opinions about what
I submit. I know I can't be perfectly objective - I have to rely on other
people to provide this.

And a very valid point, one that you have absolutely no hope of
understanding: It's tougher than it looks. Taking whatever free time you
have and trying to fulfill a mandate to the overall satisfaction not only
of yourself, but of others as well, is no easy task. You'll never
comprehend this until you're doing it yourself. For several mandates, I
knew exactly what I wanted to get - getting it was another matter entirely.
For others, I'm often at a loss. What results is not what I would consider
a great example of the mandate - it only represents *what I was able to
achieve given the conditions*. This might mean time, weather, subject
opportunities, and yes, even my skills and ability to interpret it
correctly.

But you know what? I submit it anyway, and make it a point to avoid
archive shots as well - I have a significant stock of images and can meet
quite a few mandates by resorting to that. That's not a challenge.

Thus, believe it or not, the people actually submitting probably
deserve your respect, because they dare to stick their work out into the
open and let it be judged, right up there next to the mandate itself. And
each and every one of them, regardless of my commentary, has *my* respect.

And you, Tony, do not.


Face up to it, Alan, you can't hack it, and every SI you enter merely
reinforces the point. But you think you're simply *wonderful*, and
therein lies the problem.


At no point has Alan, or indeed most of the people on this newsgroup,
ever demonstrated anything that could even remotely be considered 'ego'. So
I suspect your ability to gauge people lies about on a par with your other
demonstrated abilities...

Meanwhile, I'm getting an enormous kick out of the amount of posts
you're making regarding the SI, which I shouldn't need to remind you was
this remarkably off-topic pursuit that you were so dead set against. It's
truly gratifying to know that we hold every last shred of your attention.

So thank you, TP. You've drawn more attention to this than any polite
request for submissions possibly could have. And this comes from someone
who watches the hit counts on the site, too.

http://www.pbase.com/shootin, for anyone else who needs to know ;-)


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net
  #46  
Old June 29th 04, 02:23 AM
Al Denelsbeck
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] I miss...

TP wrote in
:

Al Denelsbeck wrote:

It's Monday, Tony. How can you be spending so much of your valuable
time on the newsgroup without your briefs falling down?



I only "spend time" on this newsgroup while I'm doing something else
on the PC ...

... whether I am waiting for scans, waiting for prints, waiting for
emails with huge binary attachments, watching you and your buddies
discuss your irrelevant consumer-grade snapshots is an amusing way to
spend time I would otherwise waste.


Maybe you should be working on those extensive lens tests, they seem
to be dragging out. Or continuing your road tour in the fried-out combie.


I should thank you for posting your crapshots, sorry snapshots.


You're very welcome! I like to think I've made it easy for anyone to
come in and wow us with their far superior work, but alas...


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net
  #47  
Old June 29th 04, 09:31 AM
TP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default [SI] I miss...

Al Denelsbeck wrote:

Some participants, yours truly among them and I more than suspect
Alan as well, make it a point to submit as often as possible. They treat it
as a greater challenge, not to shy away from any topic, no matter what.



So Alan Browne "doesn't shy away from any topic, no matter what"?

I have yet to see Alan Browne take an SI topic seriously. He just
finds one of his very limited range of formula shots (his gamut runs
from A to A) and submits that instead. He is just taking the ****.


  #48  
Old June 29th 04, 05:53 PM
Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] I miss...

TP wrote:

Al Denelsbeck wrote:

Some participants, yours truly among them and I more than suspect
Alan as well, make it a point to submit as often as possible. They treat it
as a greater challenge, not to shy away from any topic, no matter what.




So Alan Browne "doesn't shy away from any topic, no matter what"?

I have yet to see Alan Browne take an SI topic seriously. He just
finds one of his very limited range of formula shots (his gamut runs
from A to A) and submits that instead. He is just taking the ****.


Review all my shots v. the mandate and restate.

I understand your vindictiveness towards me TP. It is natural as
I have been "calling you out" for so long. It is natural that
you feel bitter and lash out. I understand completely. The
facts a

--You almost never originate threads (oh, the odd link to an
article maybe). Instead you either jump in with oft repeated
comments about the very narrow range of equipment that you know;
or to soundly criticize and/or insult other posters. (This is
the ironic part: you are often right, but you couch it in such
mean terms regarding the OP that people are immediately offended.)

--You refuse to post any images backing up your claims as a
professional photographer who shoots 50 rolls per average *week*.
Yet you wax on about "waiting for scans". It can't be *that*
difficult to post one or two. I'll donate the webspace for it if
you like.

--When anyone points out your mean and petty spirit they become
targets for your most acid character.

Frankly, you are a joke. Even the few regular posters in this NG
who feel some kind of kinship with you have become alienated from
you. They have come to realize that you are not what you purport
to be.

Pretty sad situation.

--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

  #49  
Old June 29th 04, 06:00 PM
TP
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Posts: n/a
Default [SI] I miss...

Alan Browne wrote:

Review all my shots v. the mandate and restate.



I have.


  #50  
Old June 29th 04, 07:03 PM
Alan Browne
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Default [SI] I miss...

TP wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

Review all my shots v. the mandate and restate.




I have.


Answer the rest of the post, coward.


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

 




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