Inca Trail and Battery Charging

PeterN wrote:
Depends on the camera, and file settings.

But of course!

D800 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 74.4 MB.
D500 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 25.0 MB.

The latter is close enough to my Canon's data consumption rate ... and
the 192GB in CF cards which I paid only (yes, got lucky) $100 for affords
over 5,000 exposures (in RAW+JPG).

For the D800, it gets a bit over 800 shots out of each 64GB card, and 192GB
works out to roughly 2,500 shots. That's 10 days @ 250/day...enough capacity yet?

Basic arithmetic will tell you that you cannot get thousands of images when
shooting at 14 bit uncompressed NEF.

Sorry, but since it can be shot & stored, the number of GB for storage for 1,000 shots is simple math.

And at ~$1/GB (retail), the estimated acquisition cost is quite straightforward too.

This isn't a technology barrier - it's merely cost...and as I said, memory cars are profoundly cheaper
today than even but just a few years ago.

And frankly, when we dropping $2K for a body or $1K for a lens, why should spending
+$100 for having a 1,000 magazine depth (or +$200 for 2K) be such an whinefest?

Ditto if one considers including travel & vacation expenses ... and even one's PC too...


-hh




--
PeterN

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 9:31:11 AM UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:35:44 UTC, PeterN wrote:

Places to upload to the cloud prescriptively have power to
recharge the batteries.

But you won't find such a place at the top of machu picchu that is the point.

As of a ~decade ago, the only establishment at the top was
the Sanctuary Lodge. There's been attempts to close it, but
its reportedly still open:

https://www.belmond.com/hotels/south-america/peru/machu-picchu/belmond-sanctuary-lodge/

I was able to find a simple room rate; a mere $650/night (+10% tax)
which includes WiFi, but not breakfast. The same room with full
board is $1100/night (after the 10% tax) which is why most visitors
choose instead to stay elsewhere (down in Aguas Calientes).


You might be lucky ... but don't expect the same sort of
upload/download speeds you get in large cities.

WiFi is technically available, but the level of bandwidth
needed for a significant data dump is the risk, and this
IMO includes the town of Aguas Calientes. Their only land
connection to the outside world is the train line and their
relevant communication lines are IMO probably along the same
train route. The rail has had semi-regular seasonal breaks
in service from spring floods washing out a section, which
would likely also take out their communication too, although
when this does happen, the tourism is suspended. Even so,
when you have 5,000 tourists arriving back at their hotels
each evening, the network is going to get crunched.

As such, I'd be reluctant to assume that I'd be readily able
to data dump from cards at this stop. Sure, one may get
lucky, but for planning purposes, I'd assume nothing more
optimistic than having the first reasonably reliable backup
opportunity (via an Internet Kiosk) probably won't be until
returning back to Cuzco...


You'll also be suprised to find that there's no mcdonalds
at the top of machu picchu.

Pragmatically, the trekking groups enter via the Sun Gate
and then stay for most of the day (touring the site) before
catching a bus for the half hour ride down the switchbacks
to Aguas Calientes.

The implications here are that one will need to have +1 more
day's worth of {power & memory cards} after the days on the
trail before getting to a hotel to check in & having the
opportunity for a systems 'recover' (be this power and/or data).
And since MP is a journey highlight, it can be expected to
be a day with a much higher demand for photo taking.


-hh

On 11/2/2017 10:28 PM, -hh wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Depends on the camera, and file settings.

But of course!

D800 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 74.4 MB.
D500 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 25.0 MB.

The latter is close enough to my Canon's data consumption rate ... and
the 192GB in CF cards which I paid only (yes, got lucky) $100 for affords
over 5,000 exposures (in RAW+JPG).

You did indeed get lucky. Amazon sells the Lexar Professional 128 GB for
$275. Yes I know there are cheaper cards, but I have used only the Lexar
or Sandisk. I have read too many horror stories about other brands. I
will go with the odds.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD71AYQ/ref=as_at/?creativeASIN=B00OD71FKU&imprToken=oAiI2JK4L2Uo.pX s32NUfA&slotNum=14&ie=UTF8&linkCode=w61&tag=bpg-cardbuy-20&linkId=45e5111d0158cfbd8da8bd84b9d7c57d&th=1


For the D800, it gets a bit over 800 shots out of each 64GB card, and 192GB
works out to roughly 2,500 shots. That's 10 days @ 250/day...enough capacity yet?

Capacity sounds about right. When I shoot landscape I shoot at most
about ten frames per hour, fifty if I am bracketing, (Since there is a
lot of DR in the D800, 1 EV difference is not very meaningful,
Therefore, I need five shots to get 2 EV difference.) If I want to do
panos, could be significantly more, depending on the scene.

Basic arithmetic will tell you that you cannot get thousands of images when
shooting at 14 bit uncompressed NEF.

Sorry, but since it can be shot & stored, the number of GB for storage for 1,000 shots is simple math.

And at ~$1/GB (retail), the estimated acquisition cost is quite straightforward too.




This isn't a technology barrier - it's merely cost...and as I said, memory cars are profoundly cheaper
today than even but just a few years ago.

And frankly, when we dropping $2K for a body or $1K for a lens, why should spending
+$100 for having a 1,000 magazine depth (or +$200 for 2K) be such an whinefest?

No argument from me, on that. my personal preferences are to use 32 GB
cards, as that is usually enough for a days shooting. I figure that if I
lose a card, I only lose that day.
Remember I have two cards in each of my cameras.
YMMV




--
PeterN

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 1:04:24 PM UTC-4, PeterN wrote:
On 11/2/2017 10:28 PM, -hh wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Depends on the camera, and file settings.

But of course!

D800 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 74.4 MB.
D500 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 25.0 MB.

The latter is close enough to my Canon's data consumption rate ... and
the 192GB in CF cards which I paid only (yes, got lucky) $100 for affords
over 5,000 exposures (in RAW+JPG).

You did indeed get lucky.

Agreed, and in looking at today's prices, my 2016 purchases were a steal.

FWIW, it also included three 64GB SDXC cards (SanDisk 64GB Extreme
UHS-I Class 10) for $20 each.

Yes I know there are cheaper cards, but I have used only the Lexar
or Sandisk.

That's where I'm at now...plus I also buy only from B&H, to
minimize counterfeit risks. My last 'off brand' were some
Delkin's in 2012 (was $37 for 16GB = ~$2.30/GB)

Amazon sells the Lexar Professional 128 GB for $275.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD71AYQ/ref=as_at/?creativeASIN=B00OD71FKU&imprToken=oAiI2JK4L2Uo.pX s32NUfA&slotNum=14&ie=UTF8&linkCode=w61&tag=bpg-cardbuy-20&linkId=45e5111d0158cfbd8da8bd84b9d7c57d&th=1

Using 32GB cards at B&H, they're currently around ~$1/GB, especially
when at the lower speeds (not sure what you really need (vs want)):

"330x"
$26 ... SanDisk 32GB Ultra ('up to Write 50 / Read 50 MB/sec)

"800x"
$32 ... SanDisk 32 GB Extreme (UDMA 7; Write 85/Read 120 MB/sec)
$60 ... two-pack of same -- works out to $0.94/GB

"1000x"
$48 ... SanDisk 32GB Extreme Pro ({160MB/s} W150/R160 MB/sec)

"1066x"
$75 ... two-pack of Lexar Professional (UDMA 7; W(65)155/R160 MB/sec)
-- $1.17/GB

Link for the above, plus you can change the search to 64GB cards, etc:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c0&ci=1097&fct=fct_brand_name %7clexar%2bfct_brand_name%7csandisk%2bfct_card-type_158%7ccompactflash%2bfct_capacity_568%7c32gb% 2b&srtclk=sort&N=4093113320&

FWIW, I don't see B&H offering any Lexar 128GB's (let alone a "2000x"), but
they do have a Sandisk Extreme ("800x")for $85 and a Sandisk Extreme Pro
("1000x") for $150, which works out to $0.66/GB & $1.17/GB respectively.

And for price history, one can find tools such as:

https://www.canonpricewatch.com/memory-card-prices/

and this one for understanding price trends over time:

https://camelcamelcamel.com/SanDisk-Extreme-CompactFlash-Memory-SDCFXPS-032G-X46/product/B00ECEVEP0?context=browse


[...]

If I want to do panos, could be significantly more, depending on the scene.

Yes, there's always more considerations and elements to consider
building into one's contingency plans. The good news is that
memory pricing isn't one that still costs an arm & leg.


-hh

On 11/3/2017 2:38 PM, -hh wrote:
On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 1:04:24 PM UTC-4, PeterN wrote:
On 11/2/2017 10:28 PM, -hh wrote:
PeterN wrote:
Depends on the camera, and file settings.

But of course!

D800 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 74.4 MB.
D500 shooting at 14bit uncompressed RAW is 25.0 MB.

The latter is close enough to my Canon's data consumption rate ... and
the 192GB in CF cards which I paid only (yes, got lucky) $100 for affords
over 5,000 exposures (in RAW+JPG).

You did indeed get lucky.

Agreed, and in looking at today's prices, my 2016 purchases were a steal.

FWIW, it also included three 64GB SDXC cards (SanDisk 64GB Extreme
UHS-I Class 10) for $20 each.

Yes I know there are cheaper cards, but I have used only the Lexar
or Sandisk.

That's where I'm at now...plus I also buy only from B&H, to
minimize counterfeit risks. My last 'off brand' were some
Delkin's in 2012 (was $37 for 16GB = ~$2.30/GB)

I used to deal only with B&H and a local store, Koh's. That started when
I was pricing a lens, and he was several hundred less than anybody else.
When I asked him if it was gray market, he said no, it was used. That
lens could have passed for new. Jimmy though is only authorized to sell
new Nikon P&S & accessories. He recently retired. Over the last two
years I developed a relationship with Hunts. I no deal only with them
and B&H. There have been several times when both have advised me not to
purchase an item, although it cost them a sale, that would have amounted
to several hundred dollars.




Amazon sells the Lexar Professional 128 GB for $275.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OD71AYQ/ref=as_at/?creativeASIN=B00OD71FKU&imprToken=oAiI2JK4L2Uo.pX s32NUfA&slotNum=14&ie=UTF8&linkCode=w61&tag=bpg-cardbuy-20&linkId=45e5111d0158cfbd8da8bd84b9d7c57d&th=1

Using 32GB cards at B&H, they're currently around ~$1/GB, especially
when at the lower speeds (not sure what you really need (vs want)):

"330x"
$26 ... SanDisk 32GB Ultra ('up to Write 50 / Read 50 MB/sec)

"800x"
$32 ... SanDisk 32 GB Extreme (UDMA 7; Write 85/Read 120 MB/sec)
$60 ... two-pack of same -- works out to $0.94/GB

"1000x"
$48 ... SanDisk 32GB Extreme Pro ({160MB/s} W150/R160 MB/sec)

"1066x"
$75 ... two-pack of Lexar Professional (UDMA 7; W(65)155/R160 MB/sec)
-- $1.17/GB

Link for the above, plus you can change the search to 64GB cards, etc:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c0&ci=1097&fct=fct_brand_name %7clexar%2bfct_brand_name%7csandisk%2bfct_card-type_158%7ccompactflash%2bfct_capacity_568%7c32gb% 2b&srtclk=sort&N=4093113320&

FWIW, I don't see B&H offering any Lexar 128GB's (let alone a "2000x"), but
they do have a Sandisk Extreme ("800x")for $85 and a Sandisk Extreme Pro
("1000x") for $150, which works out to $0.66/GB & $1.17/GB respectively.

And for price history, one can find tools such as:

https://www.canonpricewatch.com/memory-card-prices/

and this one for understanding price trends over time:

https://camelcamelcamel.com/SanDisk-Extreme-CompactFlash-Memory-SDCFXPS-032G-X46/product/B00ECEVEP0?context=browse


[...]

If I want to do panos, could be significantly more, depending on the scene.

Yes, there's always more considerations and elements to consider
building into one's contingency plans. The good news is that
memory pricing isn't one that still costs an arm & leg.


For the D800 the lower speed CF cards are fine. The SD card throughput
in the camera is so slow that it almost doesn't matter. However, to
avoid confusion I get the higher speed SD cards, because my D500 can use
the higher speed. I like the availability of the higher speed, and the
cost difference is small, compared to all the other costs involved.

I was recently checking the MTBF, and came across this:
https://www.amtron.com/cfcard.htm
Prices are significantly higher. e.g. 16 GB CF card 299.99. Looking at
the specs, I doubt if my photography would ever require those
temperature tolerances.


--
PeterN

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 6:54:32 AM UTC-5, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 3 November 2017 15:12:32 UTC, -hh wrote:
On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 9:31:11 AM UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:35:44 UTC, PeterN wrote:

Places to upload to the cloud prescriptively have power to
recharge the batteries.

But you won't find such a place at the top of machu picchu
that is the point.

As of a ~decade ago, the only establishment at the top was
the Sanctuary Lodge. There's been attempts to close it, but
its reportedly still open:

https://www.belmond.com/hotels/south-america/peru/machu-picchu/belmond-sanctuary-lodge/

I was able to find a simple room rate; a mere $650/night (+10% tax)
which includes WiFi, but not breakfast. The same room with full
board is $1100/night (after the 10% tax) which is why most visitors
choose instead to stay elsewhere (down in Aguas Calientes).

As the OP implied it's whether you have battery power for taking
phosos is what's important.

There's multiple points of failure to manage; battery is merely
one necessary component of the overall system workflows, as is
also the sufficiency of the recording media, getting it safely
home from the remote site, etc.



WiFi is technically available,

You can't use wifi to take photos.

True, but it is part of a potential workflow to "get the
photos back home". Not the only solution, but merely one
option of several. Could also use a microSD attached to
the leg of a homing pigeon.



and this
IMO includes the town of Aguas Calientes. Their only land
connection to the outside world is the train line and their
relevant communication lines are IMO probably along the same
train route. The rail has had semi-regular seasonal breaks
in service from spring floods washing out a section, which
would likely also take out their communication too, although
when this does happen, the tourism is suspended. Even so,
when you have 5,000 tourists arriving back at their hotels
each evening, the network is going to get crunched.

Yes that would also cause problems.

FYI, same problem also happens on cruise ships.


-hh