Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said:

On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or
composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event for example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just
fine,
8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


--
PeterN

On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote:
On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event for
example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just
fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0
--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote:
On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the
medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big
issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event
for
example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a
slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just
fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should
be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that
what they publish:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...assination%20S
cene%20%5BThe%20Salton%20Sea%5D%20RINNSTEINPROPHET %20RINNSTEINPROPHET%20.
jpg
--
teleportation kills

In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

On Wed, 10 May 2017 16:11:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.

the grass isn't what killed him.

On 2017-05-10 22:02:08 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 10 May 2017 16:11:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.

I guess you aren't familiar with South-Eastern California?
--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:13:23 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.

the grass isn't what killed him.

Went right past you, didn't it?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 10 May 2017 15:27:53 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-05-10 22:02:08 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 10 May 2017 16:11:45 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.

I guess you aren't familiar with South-Eastern California?

I should have put a smiley after it.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed
to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

at least they got the multiple shooter part right.

Not much grass though.

the grass isn't what killed him.

Went right past you, didn't it?

it went right past *you*.