For Tony, A Non-HDR Studebaker

On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be
going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go
clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go
counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

==
Later....
Ron C
--

On 2015-03-08 20:04:47 +0000, Ron C said:

On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

Now there is a thought, run Laguna Seca counter-clockwise and climb the
"Corkscrew". Going over that crest at speed, into a right turn would be
a real thrill.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2015-03-08 20:41:08 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2015-03-08 20:04:47 +0000, Ron C said:

On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

Oops! I meant to say; "...isn't run as a clockwise oval."

Now there is a thought, run Laguna Seca counter-clockwise and climb the
"Corkscrew". Going over that crest at speed, into a right turn would be
a real thrill.

....and the same correction applies there, clockwise, not counter-clockwise.

I guess my fingers were running with my brain not in gear.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Sun, 8 Mar 2015 13:41:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2015-03-08 20:04:47 +0000, Ron C said:

On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

Now there is a thought, run Laguna Seca counter-clockwise and climb the
"Corkscrew". Going over that crest at speed, into a right turn would be
a real thrill.

I wonder how motorcycles would handle it?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2015-03-08 21:22:46 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sun, 8 Mar 2015 13:41:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-03-08 20:04:47 +0000, Ron C said:
On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

Now there is a thought, run Laguna Seca counter-clockwise and climb the
"Corkscrew". Going over that crest at speed, into a right turn would be
a real thrill.

I wonder how motorcycles would handle it?

They handle it very well. It is quite spectacular to see those bikes
making that left-side to right-side lean switch as they negotiate that
turn at race speed.

Laguna Seca has been one of the stops for the MotoGP World Championship
tour. This year big $$$ has spoken and the US MotoGP race will be at
the new "Circuit of The Americas" or "COTA" in Austin, Texas.
It is still a major stop for the World Super Bike and AMA races.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:04:47 -0400, Ron C wrote:


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That could be the most annoying video I've ever seen. Bunch of words,
bunch of slow motion of essentially nothing at useless camera angles.
An on-board camera would have been about the only way to get a feel
for it. In fact, here's one of many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOek5nI6Wac

And here's a (very old) video from a bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-dB4DB7dg

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:07:42 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:04:47 -0400, Ron C wrote:


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That could be the most annoying video I've ever seen. Bunch of words,
bunch of slow motion of essentially nothing at useless camera angles.
An on-board camera would have been about the only way to get a feel
for it. In fact, here's one of many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOek5nI6Wac

And here's a (very old) video from a bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-dB4DB7dg

Here's a better one on a bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YYQQXuPWMg

On 2015-03-08 22:02:36 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Sun, 8 Mar 2015 13:41:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

What do you mean "convinced"? I made no assumption about where, or
under what conditions, the shot was made. I merely observed that for
a person who grew up thinking Indy cars run counter-clockwise sees
that image as somewhat disconcerting.

Yup! You didn't make an assumption, you made a decided statement. In
your first reply to my OP you seemed to have formulated a strong
opinion as to the direction of travel in that image when you stated:
"Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise."

You pretty much decided that he was driving clockwise without
clarifying the actual direction of travel, and that was for you
disconcerting. So much so that you made that comment, even though you
were wrong.

Photographs can be deceptive if points of reference are misinterpreted
as you did.

Road racing was a foreign sport in my growing-up years. With no
television coverage of the sport, it was pretty much unknown to me.
While races were held in places like Sebring as early as 1950, it was
not a popular form of racing in the US. The first road race I
attended was at Road America at Elkhart Lake (Wisconsin) somewhere
around 1966 or 1967. Road America goes back to the 1950s, though.

Today, with television coverage of everything that goes on, people are
aware of things that they don't see in person. That wasn't the case
for people of my generation.

I have been to road races with my father since I was aware of what was
actually happening around me in the early 50's. Particularly at places
such as Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. I have been a fan and follower of
F1 & Le Mans type races since the early 1960's.

I remember talking to a man in 1968 who had tried out for the Olympic
track team (he didn't make it) when he was young who had seen a
newspaper photograph of Dick Fosbury at the Olympics, who insisted
that Fosbury tried to abort his jump, turned by accident, and would be
disqualified. It was disconcerting to him to see someone go over the
bar with his back down.

....and that has what to do with anything in this thread, other than his
refusal to understand what was being shown?


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2015-03-08 21:43:15 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2015-03-08 21:22:46 +0000, Eric Stevens said:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2015 13:41:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-03-08 20:04:47 +0000, Ron C said:
On 3/8/2015 12:41 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-03-08 16:20:56 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2015-03-08 10:48:19 +0000, Jeff said:
Tony Cooper wrote in
:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:58:14 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

I recall your fondness for Studebakers, and along with your distain of
all things HDR. So I thought you might enjoy this Non-HDR image of a
1932 Studebaker Indy Special Racer.
http://adobe.ly/1Mfq417

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

I have the same problem in viewing some UK shots of point-to-point
racing. They run clockwise.

That looks like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, in which case they
would be going counterclockwise. It is not unusual for road courses in the US
to go clockwise, though (Infineon, Mid-Ohio). Indianapolis has a road course
through the infield. When cars use it they go clockwise and
motorcycles go counterclockwise.

Correct! It is the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, and it does run anti or
counterclockwise (depending on your particular taste). My position was
on the hill under the trees, where I could see the vehicles coming
directly down the drop off into that radical elevation change starting
with the left curve over the top, then the left to right to left
switch back, into the sweep at the bottom.
I believe Tony thought that the blue & white curb indicated the
outside of an oval track running clockwise. Laguna Seca is no oval,
and there is more to driving there than only making a left turn.

BTW: that elevation change is one of the greatest on any motor race
track anywhere. The only comparible track is Bathurst in Australia
where there is a climb up Mount Panorama with a subsequent serious
descent. Most drivers liken the experience of navigating the
"Corkscrew" to driving off a six story building, and having to
maintain control.

This shot might show a bit more of the direction change.
http://adobe.ly/1Gvw9q1

...and with the luxury of GPS tagging in the file EXIF, my position
for many of those shots can be seen.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_20.jpg

...and this shot might show the direction change in the "Corkscrew" a
little better.
https://db.tt/PONAFPIu


Can't remember who posted this link but for what it's worth, here's
a youtube clip of that turn:
"A Blind Crest and a 3 Story Drop: The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pej4R0DsKKs#t=213

That is one of the better demonstrations of just what that corner is
like. Anyway, we might have convinced Tony that Laguna Seca isn't run
as a counter-clockwise oval. ;-)

Now there is a thought, run Laguna Seca counter-clockwise and climb the
"Corkscrew". Going over that crest at speed, into a right turn would be
a real thrill.

I wonder how motorcycles would handle it?

They handle it very well. It is quite spectacular to see those bikes
making that left-side to right-side lean switch as they negotiate that
turn at race speed.

Laguna Seca has been one of the stops for the MotoGP World Championship
tour. This year big $$$ has spoken and the US MotoGP race will be at
the new "Circuit of The Americas" or "COTA" in Austin, Texas.
It is still a major stop for the World Super Bike and AMA races.


....and here is how two very competitive & aggressive MotoGP racers
handle Laguna Seca:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY9mrKR5SkA&spfreload=10

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2015.03.06 15:16 , Tony Cooper wrote:

Nice shot, but disconcerting because he's driving clockwise on a race
track. Having grown up in Indianapolis, I know that race cars go
around counterclockwise.

The Montreal Formula One is run clockwise as are most F1's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...a_One_circuits



--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin