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#51
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
Bandicoot wrote:
"Big Bill" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:48:42 +0000 (UTC), wrote: Let's say, through the act of god, or whatever, that you've been transported back through time for a few thousand years. Would you've preferred that you have a digital camera? Or a film camera? There are reasons that technological breakthroughs come when they do; supporting technology must also be possible. What would you do with any film you exposed? Did you also backpack your chemicals? How would you *view* your pics? Did you also pack in your papers? How about a darkroom? With digital, how do you view the pics? Even just getting *water* will be a problem; there's a reason everyone drank beer & wine: the water was really bad. I seriously doubt that film, if unprocessed would last to today, *if* it were discoverd in some dig. Best bet would be to stick it in a slow moving glacier. A Compact flash card? It's plastic; plastic lasts a long time, but not *that* long. Some years back there was a debate about how to label high level radioactive waste in ways that would appropriately warn people "Do not dig here or you will die!" and would last the necessary 20,000 years. Language is not too tricky: a skull and cross-bones suggests death to any human regardless of cutural context - the problem is the material. Most things that really last are also intrinsically valuable or useful. Gold - nah, people would actively dig it up. Plastics wouldn't last long enough. Even glass makes excellent flaked cutting tools, and who is to say that in 20 millenia man won't be back to the stone age. In the end someone had the sense to ask archaeologists, and the concensus answer was pottery. Lasts easily for that length of time, and is not very intrinsically useful: break it and there are no sharp edges, it can't really be shaped in any worthwhile way. Make it rounded, so you can't build with it. Bury enough at the site that they have no rarity value and that anyone digging there will run into them, but not so many that they are worth exploiting as a raw material (to ballast a boat, say, or to grind up to make grog tempered earthenware.) I always thought this was a fascinating exercise. I'm not sure at all if this can apply to all radioactive materials, but one method is to encapsulate the radioactive material in very small quantities into small glass beads. This keeps the material seperated enough that fission will not occur naturally regardless of the quantity at any given spot, and also allows for the wide dispertion of the material (say underground in stable strata or on the ocean floor) without any harm to the environment (this last bit about the ocean is questionable, to be sure). Would a subduction fault be a good place for the disposal of these beads ... suck them down into the mantle where they can decay over time? Cheers, Alan -- --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#52
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
Matt Clara wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message .. . Sabineellen wrote: For example, if i went back to the early days of cinema i'd take a movie like the first matrix movie and show it to an early filmmaker, like someone from 1932 when they were excited with their talkies. It'd totally captivate him, i think. I'll tell him that's how the future is. The LOTR triology, played as if they were one movie, would be another option. By doing that you would kill the initiative that in proper evolution and creativity brought us to the point where films like the Matrix could be made. Not that there was much point to the stupid movie. The first one was brilliant, and had a great point, about free-will, about the constructs of life and how they blind us to a bigger picture, and about each of our role(s) in becoming whole and complete human beings. I'll agree with you on the second and third movies, however! There was a first movie? -- --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#53
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take? M1A1 Abrams, lots of Fuel and AMMO!!!
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:54:22 GMT, Matt Silberstein
wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:48:10 -0700, Big Bill wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:21:52 -0400, "Spectre" wrote: M1A1 Abrams, lots of Fuel and AMMO!!! Strictly as a mental exercise, I would consider that terminal overkill. One ot two thousand years ago, there were no practical targets worthy of that kind of firepower. IMO, much better would be something along the line of an APC; much more interior room (gotta put that fuel somewhre, as well as the photo equipment), able to be operated by one person, an M-60 on the ring/pintle is more than enough to intimidate any group of people of the time period, and the APC will protect you as well as the M1A1 will from whatever the locals can throw at you. How about a couple of lighters and some engineering books? Lighters might be an awe-inspiring thing! Engineering books - well, I was an Army engineer, and the books would have been useless back then. Of course, they dealt with things like building airfields. :-) I'm thinking that engineering books in general would leave you pretty frustrated by requiring things you just couldn't get, including the manpower. I'm also thinking that going back in time and thinking you can alter things in a major way just won't work, except if you just used violence. The technology available would be so lacking compared to what we have now that just about any project you cared to undertake would be lacking tools or other items that just didn't exist, and couldn't be fabricated. And even if all that was needed was manpower, how would you get the locals to volunteer, when you couldn't talk to them? Even altering things in a minor way would be hard, because you couldn't communicate the need, or concept. If *I* were to go back in time, I'd be very sure I could get back. Bill Funk Change "g" to "a" |
#54
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take? M1A1 Abrams, lots of Fuel and AMMO!!!
Big Bill wrote:
I'm also thinking that going back in time and thinking you can alter things in a major way just won't work, except if you just used violence. The technology available would be so lacking compared to what we have now that just about any project you cared to undertake would be lacking tools or other items that just didn't exist, and couldn't be fabricated. And even if all that was needed was manpower, how would you get the locals to volunteer, when you couldn't talk to them? Even altering things in a minor way would be hard, because you couldn't communicate the need, or concept. Watermill,windmill,still for water purefaction. More modern farming methods. You don't bring 2004 tech with you. You bring 1504 tech with you. Nick |
#55
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take? M1A1 Abrams, lots of Fuel and AMMO!!!
"Nick Zentena" wrote in message
... Big Bill wrote: I'm also thinking that going back in time and thinking you can alter things in a major way just won't work, except if you just used violence. The technology available would be so lacking compared to what we have now that just about any project you cared to undertake would be lacking tools or other items that just didn't exist, and couldn't be fabricated. And even if all that was needed was manpower, how would you get the locals to volunteer, when you couldn't talk to them? Even altering things in a minor way would be hard, because you couldn't communicate the need, or concept. Watermill,windmill,still for water purefaction. More modern farming methods. You don't bring 2004 tech with you. You bring 1504 tech with you. Nick Absolutely: what you want at any given time is the thing they would have invented anyway not that much (relatively) later: so it is achievable, but still a great step forward. What that is depends on what time you are at - the secret of iron smelting would be pretty good in the late bronze age... Peter |
#56
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
... Bandicoot wrote: [SNIP] Some years back there was a debate about how to label high level radioactive waste in ways that would appropriately warn people "Do not dig here or you will die!" and would last the necessary 20,000 years. Language is not too tricky: a skull and cross-bones suggests death to any human regardless of cutural context - the problem is the material. Most things that really last are also intrinsically valuable or useful. Gold - nah, people would actively dig it up. Plastics wouldn't last long enough. Even glass makes excellent flaked cutting tools, and who is to say that in 20 millenia man won't be back to the stone age. In the end someone had the sense to ask archaeologists, and the concensus answer was pottery. Lasts easily for that length of time, and is not very intrinsically useful: break it and there are no sharp edges, it can't really be shaped in any worthwhile way. Make it rounded, so you can't build with it. Bury enough at the site that they have no rarity value and that anyone digging there will run into them, but not so many that they are worth exploiting as a raw material (to ballast a boat, say, or to grind up to make grog tempered earthenware.) I always thought this was a fascinating exercise. I'm not sure at all if this can apply to all radioactive materials, but one method is to encapsulate the radioactive material in very small quantities into small glass beads. This keeps the material seperated enough that fission will not occur naturally regardless of the quantity at any given spot, and also allows for the wide dispertion of the material (say underground in stable strata or on the ocean floor) without any harm to the environment (this last bit about the ocean is questionable, to be sure). Would a subduction fault be a good place for the disposal of these beads ... suck them down into the mantle where they can decay over time? The trouble with the beads is making sure no one finds them pretty and makes them into jewellery. Remember Marie Curie and teh necklace she wore? Of course they are only practical for low volume / high level waste (which is just where they would be dangerous as trinkets). Ocean floor disposal deals with that, but like you I wonder about its environmental impact. The subduction zone idea ocurred to me as well - don't know if it has been seriously considered but it does seem to be the ideal answer in so many ways. Peter |
#57
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
paul wrote: On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:32:57 +0000, MarkH wrote: wrote in : Me, I think I'll take a DSLR that takes AA battery and a few GB of compact flash, and a solar AA battery charger, and a GPS that writes the tracklog to compact flash and virtually unlimited waypoint storage, that also takes AA batteries When you try to use the GPS you would introduce the word "DOH!" to the ancient civilization. When I read the OP, I had the best laugh for this day. thanks! GPS: I wonder how he would build and launch the satellites? |
#58
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:32:57 +0000, MarkH wrote:
wrote in : Me, I think I'll take a DSLR that takes AA battery and a few GB of compact flash, and a solar AA battery charger, and a GPS that writes the tracklog to compact flash and virtually unlimited waypoint storage, that also takes AA batteries When you try to use the GPS you would introduce the word "DOH!" to the ancient civilization. When I read the OP, I had the best laugh for this day. thanks! |
#59
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If you are trapped in ancient time, what would you take?
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