How to retrieve 35mm leader?

See my post about the M601 Enlarger - for every one person who helps there
are 20 know it all "experts" who don't even bother to read the post
properly.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
...
On 4/18/2004 12:45 PM CCDee spake thus:

Retrieving a leader:

[retrieval method snipped]

Congratulations, and thanks: yours is the very first post in this thread
that
was actually useful to me. In other words, you didn't:

1. Chide me for being such a stupid jerk for losing the leader inside the
cassette in the first place.

2. Suggest that I buy a commercially-made retriever (and even give me
multiple
links to items!), even after I specifically said I didn't want to buy one.

3. Tell me that I could try to take apart the cassette, only to have
subsequent posters correct that by saying that most cassettes today won't
snap
back together (I know this from experience).

4. Tell me about some weird-ass Chinese film that I'm never likely to use,
and
how it is in a snap-together cassette.

Ain't Usenet grand?


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
...
Well, I done it again; through sheer skill, I have *another* roll of
unexposed
35mm film with the leader inside the can. Now how the hell do I get it
out?

I know there are leader retrievers available for sale; I don't want to
buy one. I've heard somewhere or other that one can easily make one's
own
retriever. I tried sticking a thin curved piece of sheet brass into
the
cassette, but no luck.

How do the retrievers work? Do they just guide the end of the leader
out,
or do they actually hook one of the sprocket perforations?

Any helpful answers will be appreciated.


--
I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively
imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised
by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news
articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so
they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel.

- Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress

Technically incorrect - PRECIPITATE

FireBall B.Sc. Chemistry - GU'92

"CCDee" wrote in message
news:QSPgc.168142$Pk3.143239@pd7tw1no...
Ah your are (technically) correct squire. Hahahahahahah LMBFAO

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
In article thHgc.174755$Ig.101071@pd7tw2no, CCDee wrote:
Like my old chemistry teacher said "if you're not part of the
solution,
you're part of the solvent". Thx. I'll add a bit more to
that...sometimes I
reverse the retrieval leader so the "trims" are on the same side and
match
each other, this is contrary to what I said in point 3 of my OP.
Cheers.

Shouldn't that be "If you're not part of the solution, you're part
of the PERCIPITATE"?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson

--
Otzi


"CCDee" wrote in message
news:TVAgc.172978$oR5.4463@pd7tw3no...
Retrieving a leader:

1) Wind the film in the lost leader cassette until you hear it just
"click"
past the leader slot, then turn it a tiny amount more.
2) Take another roll of film one that has the leader out, lick the leader
to
wet it.
3) Put the second leader inside the slot of the first as far as you can.
Make sure the natural "curve" of the films are both inward toward the
spool.
4) Start winding the first cassette and gently pushing the second leader
in,
until you pull the second cassette leader in about two or three inches.
Until "it takes" in other words. (If it doesn't take the first time go
back
to step 1.)
5) Gently pull the leader of the second cassette while unwinding the first
to ease the lost leader out.
6) The two leaders stick together because of your saliva and the fact that
they overlap each other by a couple of inches, the "retriever" leader is
under the "lost" leader during this operation which basically forces the
lost leader to follow the other leader outside the slot. Wallah!!!

It might take a couple of attempts to begin with but I've always managed
to
retrieve lost leaders in daylight this way.


Have use this method for years. I carry a 4-5 inch piece in my camera bag
for just those moments. I found it works just fine dry.

David Nebenzahl schrieb:

Subject line adjusted...

Congratulations, and thanks: yours is the very first post in this thread that
was actually useful to me. In other words, you didn't:

So? David, I noticed you complaining like this one or more time in the
past... get over it.

Usenet is only partially problem/solution orientated - if you want
fast, prompt and direct answers, pay for it - in the photo gear shop
or whatever. Usenet is about extensive exchange of thoughts, of
chatting and ranting, of discussions. It´s a give and get. It´s not
about demanding something and ranting about "bad service" afterwards.

A bit of using the Google search might have helped you. I am offline
the WWW at the moment, but I know that there are a few DIY
instructions on cutting film into a film retreiver tool.

If you can´t tolerate that others are sharing their thoughts with you,
you are at the wrong place - even if these thoughts direct to a wrong
heading, they are at the appropriate place. They´ll lead off the
track, but more than enough interesting discussions or ideas are a
result of these - like the "weird ass Chinese film" and the snap-cap
cassettes. BTW, you are using a "weird ass kroatian film" in sheets
that comes with snap off cassettes in 35mm.

To give you a clue - I wasn´t aware that Lucky uses the cassettes,
the only other producer I know is Fotokemika. Next time I need empty
cassettes for bulk loading, I´ll have a look at the prices for
Luckypan and Efke and put them into consideration.

I know you can stand this off-track discussions from your appreciated
participation in "the other list" we both are subscribed to... why not
here, too?

1. Chide me for being such a stupid jerk for losing the leader inside the
cassette in the first place.

Why did you loose it? Sharing that reason might help us preventing it!

2. Suggest that I buy a commercially-made retriever (and even give me multiple
links to items!), even after I specifically said I didn't want to buy one.

So? Why don´t you do yourself and us a favor and spend the 5 bucks for
it? If you are not willing to spend it, throw the can away. Period.

I tried all tricks and I learned that the retrievers are quite
comfortable to use - and they´ll pay off in the end.

3. Tell me that I could try to take apart the cassette, only to have
subsequent posters correct that by saying that most cassettes today won't snap
back together (I know this from experience).

As you have noticed, some didn´t know it. now they know.

Could it be that you are slightly egocentric?

Ain't Usenet grand?

It is. Don´t shoot the messenger... or kick people in the butt for
trying to help you.

Gruss, Roman
--
"A man should always keep two things in mind:
one is that he is a fool; the other is that he is going to die."
(Gurdijew)

Roman J. Rohleder wrote:

David Nebenzahl schrieb:
=20
3. Tell me that I could try to take apart the cassette, only to have
subsequent posters correct that by saying that most cassettes today won=
't snap
back together (I know this from experience).
=20
=20
As you have noticed, some didn=B4t know it. now they know.

Well, for whatever it's worth, I'm one of those who suggested opening=20
the cassette and rethreading the film. I suggested it only because I've =

done it, with new 400TX, for exactly that reason -- due to a loading=20
error, I'd wound the leader back into an unexposed cassette, and I'm too =

cheap to pitch $4 worth of perfectly good film that was already destined =

for an experiment. In addition, I'd been examining a cassette from=20
which I'd developed the (20+ year old) Plus-X, and noting exactly what=20
was necessary to reclose the cassette.

So, I put the film, a "church key" type bottle opener, and my hands in=20
my changing bag, very gently and carefully worked off the cassette cap=20
at the short end of the spool, found the end of the film and threaded it =

through the felts, and then (this is the tricky part) aligned the cap=20
all the way around before pressing it *firmly* back in place. The film, =

when developed, had two small areas that showed fogging; neither area=20
intruded into the image frame, and I suspect the camera was at fault in=20
any case; it was a junker P&S that I've never used prior, but there had=20
to be a reason it was at Value Village when I paid $1 for it.

And I did this just a few weeks ago, so it's not a case of the cassettes =

changing since -- current manufacture Kodak cassettes can be opened and=20
reclosed, though I will admit it's easy to bend the cap or cassette=20
shell and leave yourself with a handful of film and no place to put it=20
(had I cared that much, I'd have put a stainless daylight tank in the=20
bag, too, to use as a temporary film safe should a problem arise).

In fact, I've reclosed a couple other cassettes recently, though I=20
haven't done it again with unexposed film inside and later processed the =

film; in front of me right now I have a Kodak Select BWC (C-41 B&W)=20
cassette and a Rave 200 color cassette (one the source of a fixed-out=20
strip, the other a scrap film for loading and advance tests), as well as =

the 1979-1981 vintage Plus-X and the 400TX cassettes that I've reclosed. =

I'll soon find out how well I can do it -- I've just bought two 100=20
foot rolls of old Tri-X (TX) and I'll be bulk loading them, probably=20
reusing a few of the 400TX cassettes I have left from recent shooting=20
and processing (though I do also have half a dozen new cassettes made=20
specifically for bulk loading, and plan to get more). For that, at=20
least, I'll have the luxury of being able to see what I'm doing when I=20
reclose the cassette.

--=20
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

"Roman J. Rohleder" :
...

... - like the "weird ass Chinese film" ...

btw i assume you are talking about Lucky film?
i saw it sold bulk for 30$ 60m (200ft) 100iso
is it "classic" bw film? (not c41)
are there any other iso rates - 200, 400, ....?

... using a "weird ass kroatian film" ...

i'm using "weird ass chech film" - fomapan
but my 100iso can is running out & i don't want to change to 400iso

--

ian green

Xeto : photo & graphic project : http://xeto.front.ru
photo galleries @ BlurryImage : http://www.blurryimage.com/user/ian%20green
selected photography : http://ian_green.photosight.ru/
..
EOF

ian green wrote:
"Roman J. Rohleder" :
...

... - like the "weird ass Chinese film" ...

btw i assume you are talking about Lucky film?
i saw it sold bulk for 30$ 60m (200ft) 100iso
is it "classic" bw film? (not c41)
are there any other iso rates - 200, 400, ....?

Lucky make SHD100, SHD400 and SHD400 CN. I imagine the
400 CN film is C41, SHD 100 is definitely regular B&W film.
Instructions for D-76 are inside the box. I can't read
Chinese, but if I see "D-76" and a set of times and temperatures
it is pretty obvious what to do.

The film has an unusually clear base for 35mm film. The grain
seems about normal for a conventional 100 speed film. I know that
Kodak has been doing some technology sharing with Lucky, but the
film does not resemble anything Kodak makes.

Peter.
--

"Peter Irwin" wrote

Lucky make SHD100,...

The film has an unusually clear base for 35mm film.

Lucky is just an old single coat thick emulsion film not
needing any antihalation treatment in the base.

Most modern film has a grey dye in the plastic base to
prevent halation. Additional anti-halation dyes are
placed under emulsion and in the film's backcoating.

The emulsion and back side dyes either come out in
the developing process or the dyes are made transparent
by the developer.

It sounds like Lucky doesn't use a dyed film base. If the
emulsion looks the same back and front (ie, light grey from
the back instead of dark grey) then antihalation dye was
not placed under the emulsion. If you can't scrape a thin
layer of gelatin off the back of the film then the chances
are no dye was used there either.

In old thick emulsion films the emulsion was dense enough
that light didn't get through.

Films meant for projection, microfilm and lithography have
clear base.

If you look at old negatives they are invariably clear (if they
haven't turned yellow).

I hope this is OT enough for the OP.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Peter Irwin" wrote

Lucky make SHD100,...

The film has an unusually clear base for 35mm film.

Lucky is just an old single coat thick emulsion film not
needing any antihalation treatment in the base.

Most modern film has a grey dye in the plastic base to
prevent halation. Additional anti-halation dyes are
placed under emulsion and in the film's backcoating.

It is about 18% grey both sides, so it is pretty primitive stuff.
The back is the same colour as my grey card, the front a hair lighter.
It does seem to make decent pictures, though. If the emulsion is
so thick, how come it develops in 6.5 minutes at 20C in d-76?
I thought the old films took rather longer than this.

Peter.
--

BRILLIANT!

I just recovered several rolls that way...

Thanks!

Chris

CCDee wrote:

Retrieving a leader:

1) Wind the film in the lost leader cassette until you hear it just "click"
past the leader slot, then turn it a tiny amount more.
2) Take another roll of film one that has the leader out, lick the leader to
wet it.
3) Put the second leader inside the slot of the first as far as you can.
Make sure the natural "curve" of the films are both inward toward the spool.
4) Start winding the first cassette and gently pushing the second leader in,
until you pull the second cassette leader in about two or three inches.
Until "it takes" in other words. (If it doesn't take the first time go back
to step 1.)
5) Gently pull the leader of the second cassette while unwinding the first
to ease the lost leader out.
6) The two leaders stick together because of your saliva and the fact that
they overlap each other by a couple of inches, the "retriever" leader is
under the "lost" leader during this operation which basically forces the
lost leader to follow the other leader outside the slot. Wallah!!!

It might take a couple of attempts to begin with but I've always managed to
retrieve lost leaders in daylight this way.


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
...

Well, I done it again; through sheer skill, I have *another* roll of

unexposed

35mm film with the leader inside the can. Now how the hell do I get it

out?

I know there are leader retrievers available for sale; I don't want to buy
one. I've heard somewhere or other that one can easily make one's own
retriever. I tried sticking a thin curved piece of sheet brass into the
cassette, but no luck.

How do the retrievers work? Do they just guide the end of the leader out,

or

do they actually hook one of the sprocket perforations?

Any helpful answers will be appreciated.