A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital SLR Cameras
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 4th 07, 07:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
LooksLikeRain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?

  #2  
Old May 4th 07, 08:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Adrian Boliston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 308
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

"LooksLikeRain" wrote in message
ups.com...

I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


If you have plenty of light then you can often get better results by
stopping down to f8 or so. f11-22 will give you good results if you want
both near & far objects in focus at the same time, but in poor light you
might need to go with f5.6 as a higher figure might give you too slow a
shutter speed. Try experimenting with different settings to see what works
best.

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk


  #3  
Old May 4th 07, 08:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alexander Arnakis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

On 4 May 2007 11:39:40 -0700, LooksLikeRain
wrote:

I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


You have to know a little lens-system history to realize how this
works (I'll use the Nikon system as an example, since I'm familiar
with it).

The original Nikon F lenses had a diaphragm that would be closed down
according to the aperture ring on the lens, but when mounted on the
camera, would be held open by a lever linkage. (This allowed for
full-aperture viewing.) When the shutter release was pressed, the
linkage would allow the diaphragm to stop down to the preset value,
for taking the picture. Then it would automatically open up again.

Starting with about the N2000 camera and the AIS lenses, the setting
of the aperture was transferred from the lens to the camera when using
certain program modes. That is, you would lock the lens at the minimum
aperture (say, f/22), and the camera would activate the proper
aperture by a differential motion of the linkage lever.

The G series lenses have done away with the aperture ring altogether,
and the aperture is set exclusively by the camera.

Now, to answer your question directly -- When you say your lens has a
"rated" 3.4-5.6 aperture, what you mean is that this is a zoom lens
with a *maximum* (widest) aperture of f/3.4 to f/5.6, depending on the
zoom (focal length) setting. What you should do is set the lens at the
*minimum* aperture (say, f/22). This will give the camera access to
the full range of apertures in the lens. (Remember, the lens starts
out fully open, and the camera stops it down the required amount
through the use of the linkage lever.) If, on the other hand, you set
the lens at f/5.6, the camera will not be able to stop it down smaller
than that no matter what it wants to do.

Think of the lens aperture ring as a limiter in the direction of
*larger* openings. If you don't have an aperture ring on your
particular lens, don't worry about it and just use the setting on the
camera.

  #4  
Old May 4th 07, 08:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

On May 4, 1:39 pm, LooksLikeRain wrote:
If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


The aperture numbers on your lens are the lowest f-number (largest
aperture) that your lens will allow. On a zoom lens, this often
changes depending on what focal length you're using (i.e. how "zoomed-
in" you are). The smallest number (largest aperture) is for the
shortest focal length (the widest angle; the most "zoomed-out"). The
larger number (a slightly smaller aperture) is for the longest focal
length (the narrowest angle; the most "zoomed-in").

You can always use much smaller apertures (larger f-numbers) than
these, at least to f/16 but possibly as far as f/40 or so. The
smallest apertures (largest f-numbers) are not part of the lens's
normal description -- you won't see those numbers unless you're
getting more detailed specs.

So for the common Canon 18-55mm f:3.5-5.6 lens, you can go to f/3.5 at
18mm (wide angle), but not to f/2. At 55mm, you can to to f/5.6, but
not to, say, f/4. In the other direction, you can go to f/22 or
whatever without difficulty.

With Canon's EF and EF-S lenses, the camera knows what the lens's
limits are, and won't let you go past them. So, if you zoom the
18-55mm lens to 18mm, you can pick an aperture of f/3.5, but when you
zoom in to 55mm, the camera will automatically adjust it to f/5.6.
Likewise, it won't let you set f/40 on the kit lens, because the kit
lens doesn't go that small (it does go to at least f/22 though). I
imagine the situation is similar with Nikon, Olympus, Sony, Sigma,
etc., but I have no experience with them.

Hope this helps!

- Darryl

  #5  
Old May 4th 07, 09:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 134
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

LooksLikeRain wrote:
I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks.


There is a simply *huge* amount of stuff to learn! Some of it
may be easy, some not. Some is easy only after you learn other
parts, but you don't know that 'til you get there...

One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture.


Keep in mind that there is only one diaphragm, and it is in the
lense. On most lenses, but not all, there is a ring on the lense
to control it. On most cameras, but not all, there is also a
way to control it from the the camera. But it all controls that
one aperture in the lense.

If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture,


That is just a measure of how wide the widest aperture that can
be set actually is, and the range indicates you have a zoom
lense that is a bit different at the short end of the focal
length range than it is at the long end. The numbers mean that
with the focal length at minimum the largest aperture it has is
f/3.4, but when set to the longest focal length the largest
aperture is only f/5.6.

then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


The f numbers get smaller for larger apertures (because f/stop
is a ratio of the focal length to the aperture size, not the
size of the opening). It is confusing, but to be absolutely
correct a _larger_ f/stop is a _smaller_ aperture. The minimum
f/stop is the maximum aperture (f/3.4, for example).

So, at the longest focal length, your camera can probably set
the lense to f/5.6. To make that work commonly requires the ring
on the lense itself be set to the smallest aperture (e.g., f/22,
though it might be f/16 or f/32 on some lenses).

Then what actually happens is the lense stays wide open until
you press the shutter release button. The camera closes down
the aperture to whatever it is set to just before it fires off
the shutter. But what you see looking through the viewfinder is
always with the lense wide open! That is useful for two
reasons, first that more light comes through so that you can see
to focus, but also the focus is more critical (less depth of
field) when the lense is wide open and hence you can focus more
accurately.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #6  
Old May 5th 07, 04:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
John Smith[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?


"LooksLikeRain" wrote in message
ups.com...
If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


You can do that, but keep in mind that there's a point where your lens won't
be as sharp, so you might want to use the smaller apertures ONLY when you
have a definite purpose in mind.

DP


  #7  
Old May 5th 07, 05:54 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Mitchum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

LooksLikeRain wrote:

I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


There's only one aperture. Generally speaking, you set it on the camera,
and the camera changes it in the lens.

Note that the aperture is a fraction: f/whatever. The minimum aperture
is the *smallest* aperture, which means the smallest fraction. The
minimum for your lens is probably f/22, though some lenses go to f/32
and smaller. f/3.4 is the maximum (largest) aperture for that lens.

The f/3.4-5.6 part tells us that the maximum aperture gets smaller the
more you zoom in, from f/3.4 to f/5.6. Most kit lenses do, and even many
pro-level ones. Some expensive zoom lenses are referred to as 'constant
aperture' lenses, which means their maximum aperture doesn't change as
you zoom in and out.

HTH.

--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html
  #8  
Old May 5th 07, 06:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
cmyk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

"LooksLikeRain" wrote in message ups.com...
I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


Hi LooksLikeRain,

You don't say whether you're using film or digital, and this affects whether f22 might be appropriate. The reason is that at that
level, even a full-frame 35mm image starts running into diffraction effects.

If you're using a DSLR with a smaller sensor, then you really need to open the aperture up by a corresponding amount to keep within
those limits. For example, if the image looks OK at f22 on a full-frame 35mm SLR, but not at a smaller aperture, you wouldn't want
to go below f14-f15 on a DSLT with a 1.5 or 1.6 FOV crop. In simple terms, you can divide the minimum acceptable f-stop for 35mm by
your DSLR's crop factor to get the corresponding minimum acceptable f-stop for that format.

Cheers
--
cmyk

  #9  
Old May 5th 07, 06:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

On May 4, 2:39 pm, LooksLikeRain wrote:
I am a relative newbie to photography, and I have been trying to read
some good books to teach me the basics of exposure as well as
Photoshop CS2 tips and tricks. One question I have is regarding the
lens aperture in respect to the camera aperture. If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture, then will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?



Generally, no. Almost all DSLR lenses perform best between f/4 and f/
8. f/11 is still OK, but you are already starting to get what is known
as "diffraction" (think of what happens to your vision when you squint
and you'll get the general idea). At f/16 and beyond it only gets
worse.

  #10  
Old May 5th 07, 07:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Marc Sabatella
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 228
Default In-camera aperture vs. In-lens apertu What's the difference?

Aperture is *always* (well, for any camera you'd be likely to be talking
about) in the lens. It's just that most cameras allow you to make the
setting in the camera. The camera then passes that info down to the
lens.

If my lens is only
rated for 3.4-5.6 aperture...


That doesn't mean it only does apertures in that range. It means that
is as *big* as the aperture can get for that lens - 3.4 is the biggest
at the shortest end of the zoom range, 5.6 is the biggest the aperture
can get at the longest end of the zoom range.

will it do me any good to set my
camera aperture to say f/11 or f/22 or is that just going to use the
minimum aperture the lens will allow of f/5.6?


5.6 is the *maximum* aperture the lens allows at the longest end of the
zoom range. They don't generally bother quoting the minimum, but if the
camera allows you to set f/11 or f/22, then indeed, the lens must be
supporting apertures that small (virtually all lenses will do f/11, f/22
is pretty of smaller is common too). So yes, you can set the aperture
using the in-camera controls to f/22, and lens should happily obey and
close down that small. However, you not be able to set the aperture
*larger* than whatever the maximum is at the particular particular
length you are zoomed too - the camera won't let you.

---------------
Marc Sabatella


Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
http://www.outsideshore.com/


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the Difference Between Aperture Setting, Exposure Compensation, and ISO? [email protected] Digital Photography 6 October 19th 06 06:35 PM
Aperture control with lens without an apature ring [email protected] Digital SLR Cameras 1 September 28th 06 12:47 AM
Aperture indication in Contax camera with Yashica lens 24mm/2.8 Peter Janssen 35mm Photo Equipment 3 June 15th 06 11:21 PM
Sticky aperture ring on 20mm lens. jones144 35mm Photo Equipment 3 April 3rd 05 07:04 AM
Fixed Aperture Zoom Lens Mike - EMAIL IGNORED Other Photographic Equipment 0 November 11th 03 09:39 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.