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The future of APS



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 03, 02:28 AM
Offshoreman
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Default The future of APS

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.
  #2  
Old December 16th 03, 03:20 AM
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Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

Minolta is still offering a SLR in their "Vectis" line of cameras. And
they are the only make that built a APS-specific lens system. This
investment is paying off as they re-use the Vectis lenses for their
high-end digital SLRs.
There's not a day that goes by where I don't hear the word "megapixel" at
least once. But these amateurs have to get this digitial thing out of
their system. Some of the computer addicts will stick with digital,
'cause they love touching things up in Photoshop, but most of these
amateurs will tire of running all of their photos through the computer and
will eventually return to film: either 35mm or APS.
I will admit though that APS has little to offer the pros. It's vertical
format is sub-optimal, the film area is too small, and the required focal
lengths are out of sync with the rest of 35mm. I'd like to see a jumbo
version of APS developed, using unperforated 35mm film a la 126/828 or
even better, a 46mm version. But these are just dreams, I have no hope of
either being developed or marketed.
APS will eventually die, maybe in twenty or so years. But I don't care,
I'm going to keep shooting APS until the film is no longer available. And
then I'll remember it fondly.

Offshoreman wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.


  #3  
Old December 16th 03, 05:15 AM
Michael Benveniste
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Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

On 15 Dec 2003 17:28:46 -0800,
(Offshoreman) wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.


The future is pretty bleak. I doubt you'll see any new significant
cameras, newer film scanners like the Minolta 5400 have


What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.


--
Michael Benveniste --

Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.
  #4  
Old December 16th 03, 05:48 AM
Tom Pfeiffer
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Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS


wrote in message
...
Minolta is still offering a SLR in their "Vectis" line of cameras. And
they are the only make that built a APS-specific lens system. This
investment is paying off as they re-use the Vectis lenses for their
high-end digital SLRs.


The *only* digital SLR Minolta made that used Vectis lenses was the
short-lived RD-3000 unless I missed something. It was a 2.x megapixel body.
It was a flop in part because it represented the third or fourth time
Minolta had changed its lens mount in the past 15 years, and nobody was
interested in starting over *again*. Their current digital SLR offerings
(7i/7hi/A1) all have a fixed 28-200mm equivalent lens that was never offered
in the APS world.

There's not a day that goes by where I don't hear the word "megapixel" at
least once. But these amateurs have to get this digitial thing out of
their system. Some of the computer addicts will stick with digital,
'cause they love touching things up in Photoshop, but most of these
amateurs will tire of running all of their photos through the computer and
will eventually return to film: either 35mm or APS.


I don't think so. The world is becoming more digital in many ways, and
ultimately I think people will have a handful of optical discs with their
lifetime of pictures in prisitine condition, ready to be printed at a
moment's notice, instead of three or four shoeboxes of scratched, bent and
faded prints.Much like the revolution in music these days, with much of the
up and coming crowd refusing to buy a whole CD for 2 or 3 songs, that same
crowd won't want to print every single picture they take, nor will they want
to wait hours or days to even find out if they got the picture. FIlm is
dying, all that remains to be determined is how long it has left. Less than
10 years for us consumers for sure, maybe less than 5.

I will admit though that APS has little to offer the pros. It's vertical
format is sub-optimal, the film area is too small, and the required focal
lengths are out of sync with the rest of 35mm. I'd like to see a jumbo
version of APS developed, using unperforated 35mm film a la 126/828 or
even better, a 46mm version. But these are just dreams, I have no hope of
either being developed or marketed.
APS will eventually die, maybe in twenty or so years. But I don't care,
I'm going to keep shooting APS until the film is no longer available. And
then I'll remember it fondly.


Twenty years ago we had Instamatic and Disc cameras, how long did they last?
I think you'll be lucky to be able to find or buy APS film in 5 years. Just
my opinion, of course.

Tom P.


  #5  
Old December 16th 03, 06:21 AM
Michael Benveniste
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

On 15 Dec 2003 17:28:46 -0800,
(Offshoreman) wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.


{Let's try that again...}

The future is pretty bleak. I doubt you'll see any new significant
cameras and at least one of the new film scanners, the Minolta
5400, has dropped support for the format.

It isn't all black, though, Kodak did introduce "High Definition" film
in IX240 and the new Nikon scanners include optional APS support. But
I'll hold to my prediction of earlier this year. APS film will become
hard to find by 2006, and by the end of 2008 whatever's left of Fuji,
Kodak, and Agfa will discontinue making IX240 film. (Some smaller
company may step in.)

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?


No, they aren't nuts. Despite heavy promotion and commitment from a
bunch of manufacturers, APS didn't survive the test of the
marketplace. As the market for film and film cameras as a whole
begins to shrink, the logical thing for the manufacturers to do is
consolidate their efforts in the stronger products. APS is not one of
them, so they'll milk what profits they can out of the market and then
exit.

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results.


You're a little behind the times. The amount of technical fiddling
one has to do with digital is strictly up to the user. If you want,
you can bring the camera into your local drugstore or department store
and have them print out the shots you like, with no fiddling at all.

Given the limited selection of APS films available in the U.S., I
can't think of a photographic situation where APS would be suitable
but digital would not be. Feel free to suggest some, though.

APS got caught in a market squeeze. 35mm offers better quality and
more flexibility, and it does so for a lower price. For enthusiasts,
it also has the cachet of being used by professional photographers.
APS is convenient, but it can't match disposables solely on
convenience. I won't say "size doesn't matter," but the size
advantages of APS were not enough to carve out a decent sized market
segment.

I won't comment on the "kids, women, and seniors" generalization,
except to say that the camera companies do better market research than
you do.

--
Michael Benveniste --

Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

  #6  
Old December 16th 03, 10:26 AM
Peter Stegemann
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Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

"Tom Pfeiffer" :

Twenty years ago we had Instamatic and Disc cameras, how long did they last?
I think you'll be lucky to be able to find or buy APS film in 5 years. Just
my opinion, of course.


This was a completely different situation. The difference in quality
of these systems were easily noticable even for beginners. These
systems vanished because they could not compete against the
existing 35mm system. These days it is different, APS made it's
market share and established a solid marketplace (even if it wasn't
the one the inventors hoped for), until digital systems starting
pushing APS and 35mm away. Digital is the reason why APS will
definitely die and 35mm will become a niche system which some
day might be even smaller than middle format. For sure, we're
talking about some time here. There is even a low chance that
35mm will die faster than APS. Wait for consumer digital SLRs to
gain momentum and see what happens. Nevertheless, I really don't
care which system will have the worse situation in 10 years... I
won't use either of them that time anymore.
  #7  
Old December 16th 03, 03:20 PM
Valder
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Default The future of APS

The future with me and APS is about at an end. My EOS IX is going to
go up on Ebay this week with the 140+ rolls of Fuji 100 film I have. I
sold off my Minolta APS adapter for my Scan Elite II last week. I have
not touched the camera since I got the 10D. I even sold off my Elan 7
last week as well, but I am thinking of replacing it with a EOS 3 as I
still like to shoot slide and B&W.

Valder



On 15 Dec 2003 17:28:46 -0800,
(Offshoreman) wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.


  #8  
Old December 16th 03, 10:03 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

I would like to thank former APS users like you for keeping the prices on
the aftermarket very reasonable for continuing users like me. Thanks
again!

Valder wrote:

The future with me and APS is about at an end. My EOS IX is going to
go up on Ebay this week with the 140+ rolls of Fuji 100 film I have. I
sold off my Minolta APS adapter for my Scan Elite II last week. I have
not touched the camera since I got the 10D. I even sold off my Elan 7
last week as well, but I am thinking of replacing it with a EOS 3 as I
still like to shoot slide and B&W.

Valder

On 15 Dec 2003 17:28:46 -0800,
(Offshoreman) wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.


  #9  
Old December 16th 03, 10:22 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

Tom, my only point was that Minolta is still supporting the Vectis lens
system. Obviously buying into this lens system is somewhat risky, compared to
the Canon or Nikon system, but again it appears that Minolta is still supporting
it.
Once I see a full frame digital camera with 16MP for a reasonable price, then I
might buy into digital. Until then I believe digital is a scam for amateurs.
There are still people pressing and playing vinyl records today. Again I could
care less what toys others are forking over thousands to buy. I've seen their
results and I'm not impressed.

Tom Pfeiffer wrote:

wrote in message
...
Minolta is still offering a SLR in their "Vectis" line of cameras. And
they are the only make that built a APS-specific lens system. This
investment is paying off as they re-use the Vectis lenses for their
high-end digital SLRs.


The *only* digital SLR Minolta made that used Vectis lenses was the
short-lived RD-3000 unless I missed something. It was a 2.x megapixel body.
It was a flop in part because it represented the third or fourth time
Minolta had changed its lens mount in the past 15 years, and nobody was
interested in starting over *again*. Their current digital SLR offerings
(7i/7hi/A1) all have a fixed 28-200mm equivalent lens that was never offered
in the APS world.

There's not a day that goes by where I don't hear the word "megapixel" at
least once. But these amateurs have to get this digitial thing out of
their system. Some of the computer addicts will stick with digital,
'cause they love touching things up in Photoshop, but most of these
amateurs will tire of running all of their photos through the computer and
will eventually return to film: either 35mm or APS.


I don't think so. The world is becoming more digital in many ways, and
ultimately I think people will have a handful of optical discs with their
lifetime of pictures in prisitine condition, ready to be printed at a
moment's notice, instead of three or four shoeboxes of scratched, bent and
faded prints.Much like the revolution in music these days, with much of the
up and coming crowd refusing to buy a whole CD for 2 or 3 songs, that same
crowd won't want to print every single picture they take, nor will they want
to wait hours or days to even find out if they got the picture. FIlm is
dying, all that remains to be determined is how long it has left. Less than
10 years for us consumers for sure, maybe less than 5.

I will admit though that APS has little to offer the pros. It's vertical
format is sub-optimal, the film area is too small, and the required focal
lengths are out of sync with the rest of 35mm. I'd like to see a jumbo
version of APS developed, using unperforated 35mm film a la 126/828 or
even better, a 46mm version. But these are just dreams, I have no hope of
either being developed or marketed.
APS will eventually die, maybe in twenty or so years. But I don't care,
I'm going to keep shooting APS until the film is no longer available. And
then I'll remember it fondly.


Twenty years ago we had Instamatic and Disc cameras, how long did they last?
I think you'll be lucky to be able to find or buy APS film in 5 years. Just
my opinion, of course.

Tom P.


  #10  
Old December 17th 03, 03:27 AM
Eric Holt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The future of APS

Valder: Good luck finding a seller for your IX I listed mine with
a TON of accessories and extras and kept adding things each time I
relisted... after the 3rd time I finally gave up and put it in its box
and into my closet its gone...

G'luck!
--Eric



On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:20:09 GMT, Valder wrote:

The future with me and APS is about at an end. My EOS IX is going to
go up on Ebay this week with the 140+ rolls of Fuji 100 film I have. I
sold off my Minolta APS adapter for my Scan Elite II last week. I have
not touched the camera since I got the 10D. I even sold off my Elan 7
last week as well, but I am thinking of replacing it with a EOS 3 as I
still like to shoot slide and B&W.

Valder



On 15 Dec 2003 17:28:46 -0800,
(Offshoreman) wrote:

Does anybody here know what the future lies in store for APS? Every
camera shop I go into nowadays has around 85-90% of its cameras being
digital and the rest virtually all 35mm. Only around 2-3 are APS
cameras, maybe 4.

What are the manufacturers playing at? Are only Kodak and Canon
producing APS cameras now? Even with these the range has dwindled to a
handful! And what the heck are Fuji doing? Are they pulling out as
well? Are they all nuts or what?

I don't understand this. APS is SO convenient! I can understand why
digital is popular - I have a great Pentax digicam myself - but
digital isn't suitable for every photographic situation or even every
consumer. Many kids, women and seniors *HATE* the technical fiddling
you have to do with digital. They want something simple,
straightforward, that produces reliably good results. This is where
APS is on top. So why the decline? Granted, the photography snobs and
professionals will always choose 35mm over APS, but for the 'ordinary
Joe' APS can't be beaten. Especially now that prices for APS cameras
have fallen like a stone. Ah, but maybe the new 'throwaway' party
cameras are hitting the APS market badly! I doubt it - the disposable
cameras are basically pieces of crap with no zoom, no controls
whatsoever and a fixed, inbuilt film. Might be OK for parties and
'silly' photography but poor for anything remotely serious.


 




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