Aperture's Future

"Bill W" wrote

| I'm still running Paint Shop Pro 5, which I'm sure
| will run on Win10, despite being some 15 years
| older. That's because the Windows API is
| additive: System functions are added but not
| broken. As long as a function was officially
| documented as part of the API, it can be depended
| upon to work. In 1995 or 2016.
|
| This is absolutely not true. I am always very surprised when my older
| software works from one version of Windows to the next. Cool Edit 2000
| might be my only software that has continued to work through the
| years, and it is certainly the only audio/music software that has.

It's true that the Win95 API is still there.
There could be other issues in some cases.
But if there's old software you want to use
on newer Windows you might want to do
some research online. There's a good chance
it can work. (I don't know much about audio
software or the audio API. It could be that your
audio software is tied to a version of DirectX,
or some such.)

I've been running Visual Studio
6, a very complex programming suite, since
1998. It requires one small adjustment to
install on Win7, but it works. I have OCR
software that's many years old. And as I said,
PSP5 still works fine. It depends mainly on
the same gdi.dll library used today. Newer software
that uses gdiplus.dll won't run on Win98, but
older Win98 software can run on later systems.

I write my own software on XP. It runs on
Vista/7/8/10 and most of it will run on Win98.

There are exceptions. For instance, firewalls
had to change between Win2000 and WinME
because low-level networking changed.
But that kind of thing shouldn't affect
graphic software, because graphic software
doesn't need intimate system integration.

Microsoft is very good about backward
compatibility because business runs on Windows,
and businesses won't update if their old software
won't run. In many cases that software is built
in-house. There's a lot of investment in it. That's
why Windows 10 still has IE, despite Microsoft
making Edge the default browser and essentially
disowning IE. Businesses still depend on having IE
present, so it can't be removed. Apple would never
offer that kind of support.
Windows 10 also has the Visual Studio 6 runtimes
pre-installed. That is, support libraries for software
written with 18 year old tools are all there. Apple
fans don't realize just how extensive Windows support
is. They're just too accustomed to expecting
broken support.

One typical example of the difference between
Mac and Windows: I have a blind friend who uses
software from Learning Ally to read ebooks. Here's
the current system requirements:
https://www.learningally.org/Portals...ickGuide_3.pdf

Windows 7 (released in 2009) or Mac OSX 10.9
(released in 2013). I suspect that support for XP
was probably dropped only recently. I have a
6 month old HP printer that came with XP drivers.

Apple doesn't care about supporting their customers.
They don't serve business clientelle in terms of desktop
computers, and their business model depends on a
customer base who want an excuse to throw away
the recent and buy the new. So they break stuff
deliberately. How much would it take for an ebook
downloading program to run on George Kerby's 4-year-old
Mac? It shouldn't be an issue. Yet if he were blind he'd
already have been forced to update. (My blind friend
has tweo computers -- one XP and one Win7.)

"nospam" wrote

| when win7 came out, a *lot* of stuff broke, particularly drivers.
|

Drivers have nothing to do with software. Drivers
are for hardware. Software is not the same thing
as hardware.

Drivers are usually required for each OS version.
They're written by the hardware company. Whether
they get written depends on whether there's a
market. If you have an XP-era ATI graphics card
that's been superseded numerous times it may
not get Win7 drivers, simply because very few
people will want them.

That's another issue that's difficult for Apple
fans to understand: Microsoft does not control the
hardware on Windows computers. It's an open market.
On the bright side, if you wanted to install Win7 on
that old XP box you could probably buy a new ATI
card for fairly cheap and plug it in to an expansion
slot.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| I'm still running Paint Shop Pro 5, which I'm sure
| will run on Win10, despite being some 15 years
| older. That's because the Windows API is
| additive: System functions are added but not
| broken. As long as a function was officially
| documented as part of the API, it can be depended
| upon to work. In 1995 or 2016.
|
| This is absolutely not true. I am always very surprised when my older
| software works from one version of Windows to the next. Cool Edit 2000
| might be my only software that has continued to work through the
| years, and it is certainly the only audio/music software that has.

It's true that the Win95 API is still there.

it's also true that modern software (and even not so modern) isn't
using the win95 apis anymore.

that's why they require win7 or later, sometimes win8 or later. even xp
or later for some older stuff, and usually sp3.

There could be other issues in some cases.
But if there's old software you want to use
on newer Windows you might want to do
some research online. There's a good chance
it can work. (I don't know much about audio
software or the audio API. It could be that your
audio software is tied to a version of DirectX,
or some such.)

I've been running Visual Studio
6, a very complex programming suite, since
1998.

complex?? you must be joking. primitive is what it is.

visual studio 6 doesn't support several recent c/c++ standards and had
a very non-compliant and not particularly good compiler.

these days, compilers are outputting far better code and much faster
too.

It requires one small adjustment to
install on Win7, but it works. I have OCR
software that's many years old. And as I said,
PSP5 still works fine. It depends mainly on
the same gdi.dll library used today. Newer software
that uses gdiplus.dll won't run on Win98, but
older Win98 software can run on later systems.

I write my own software on XP. It runs on
Vista/7/8/10 and most of it will run on Win98.

you'd better get cracking on making it compatible with win98. you're
losing out on a lot of customers. maybe even 5.

There are exceptions. For instance, firewalls
had to change between Win2000 and WinME
because low-level networking changed.
But that kind of thing shouldn't affect
graphic software, because graphic software
doesn't need intimate system integration.

Microsoft is very good about backward
compatibility because business runs on Windows,
and businesses won't update if their old software
won't run.

ask delta how well that worked out for them this past week.

then ask the windows mobile customers who were abandoned when windows
phone came out.

after that, ask those who did switch to windows phone 7 only to be
abandoned again with windows phone 8.

and there's also the plays for sure that stopped playing for sure.

In many cases that software is built
in-house. There's a lot of investment in it. That's
why Windows 10 still has IE, despite Microsoft
making Edge the default browser and essentially
disowning IE.

ie has years of legacy code. edge is a fresh start.

Businesses still depend on having IE
present, so it can't be removed.

it *will* be removed.

Apple would never
offer that kind of support.

except that they do.

Windows 10 also has the Visual Studio 6 runtimes
pre-installed. That is, support libraries for software
written with 18 year old tools are all there. Apple
fans don't realize just how extensive Windows support
is. They're just too accustomed to expecting
broken support.

just how many people actually want to run 20 year old apps??

One typical example of the difference between
Mac and Windows: I have a blind friend who uses
software from Learning Ally to read ebooks. Here's
the current system requirements:

https://www.learningally.org/Portals...uickGuide_3.pd
f

Windows 7 (released in 2009) or Mac OSX 10.9
(released in 2013). I suspect that support for XP
was probably dropped only recently. I have a
6 month old HP printer that came with XP drivers.

Apple doesn't care about supporting their customers.

oh yes they do, which is why 10.9 runs on macs as far back as 2007 or
so.

try running win7 on a 2007 era pc and then run the above app on that
2007 pc. good luck.

They don't serve business clientelle in terms of desktop
computers, and their business model depends on a
customer base who want an excuse to throw away
the recent and buy the new. So they break stuff
deliberately.

nonsense.

nobody sits around at apple and says "hey, how can we **** over the
customer? what can we break with the next release?"

How much would it take for an ebook
downloading program to run on George Kerby's 4-year-old
Mac? It shouldn't be an issue. Yet if he were blind he'd
already have been forced to update. (My blind friend
has tweo computers -- one XP and one Win7.)

not only does that app run just fine on his 4 year old mac, but it runs
just fine on macs *twice* as old as that.

however, the thing you completely miss is that text to speech is built
into mac os so you don't even need to buy additional software in the
first place.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

"nospam" wrote
| when win7 came out, a *lot* of stuff broke, particularly drivers.

Drivers have nothing to do with software.

what exactly do you think a driver *is*, if not software????

Drivers
are for hardware. Software is not the same thing
as hardware.

drivers are for hardware, but they *are* software.

Drivers are usually required for each OS version.

sometimes, but not always.

a lot of windows 8 drivers work in windows 10.

They're written by the hardware company.

not always.

windows includes drivers for numerous devices.

third parties also write drivers, perhaps offering additional features
over the standard drivers.

Whether
they get written depends on whether there's a
market. If you have an XP-era ATI graphics card
that's been superseded numerous times it may
not get Win7 drivers, simply because very few
people will want them.

yet you claim to write win98 code??

That's another issue that's difficult for Apple
fans to understand: Microsoft does not control the
hardware on Windows computers. It's an open market.
On the bright side, if you wanted to install Win7 on
that old XP box you could probably buy a new ATI
card for fairly cheap and plug it in to an expansion
slot.

and it would at best, run like ****.

On 14/08/2016 05:16, Lewis wrote:
In message
David Ritz wrote:
When and if you're able to get Aperture running, it may be a good time
to think about its future, as it's not likely to be a long one.

Still runs fine (AFAICT) under 10.12, so one can reasonably expect to
get 4-5 years out of it if one really wanted to.


Runs fine here too, on El Capitan and a newish iMac. As does iWeb - also
discontinued quite a while ago.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 14/08/2016 00:53, Mayayana wrote:
[]
I'm still running Paint Shop Pro 5, which I'm sure
will run on Win10, despite being some 15 years
older. That's because the Windows API is
additive: System functions are added but not
broken. As long as a function was officially
documented as part of the API, it can be depended
upon to work. In 1995 or 2016. And PSP is 3rd-party
software. Breaking their own software on their own
system is inexcusable. On the other hand, George
Kerby must surely know what to expect from Apple
by now.
[]

Backwards compatibility on Windows is generally very good. I'm running
16-year old office software, Paint Shop Pro 10, and many other programs
of a similar age. Even on this month's Windows-10 Anniversary Edition.

On the other hand, almost all software and the operating system on my
iPad 1 can no longer be updated, and is gradually stopping working (i.e.
the suppliers or Web sites no longer support the older, non-updateable
version).

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

I'm still running Paint Shop Pro 5, which I'm sure
will run on Win10, despite being some 15 years
older. That's because the Windows API is
additive: System functions are added but not
broken. As long as a function was officially
documented as part of the API, it can be depended
upon to work. In 1995 or 2016. And PSP is 3rd-party
software. Breaking their own software on their own
system is inexcusable. On the other hand, George
Kerby must surely know what to expect from Apple
by now.

Backwards compatibility on Windows is generally very good. I'm running
16-year old office software, Paint Shop Pro 10, and many other programs
of a similar age. Even on this month's Windows-10 Anniversary Edition.

On the other hand, almost all software and the operating system on my
iPad 1 can no longer be updated, and is gradually stopping working (i.e.
the suppliers or Web sites no longer support the older, non-updateable
version).

you're comparing two totally different things.

first you brag about running 16 year old apps on windows (as if that's
a good thing), then you complain that you can't update apps on an
original ipad.

can't have it both ways.

and the 2nd gen ipad is *still* supported with ios 9.

On 2016-08-14 14:18:50 +0000, nospam said:

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

I'm still running Paint Shop Pro 5, which I'm sure
will run on Win10, despite being some 15 years
older. That's because the Windows API is
additive: System functions are added but not
broken. As long as a function was officially
documented as part of the API, it can be depended
upon to work. In 1995 or 2016. And PSP is 3rd-party
software. Breaking their own software on their own
system is inexcusable. On the other hand, George
Kerby must surely know what to expect from Apple
by now.

Backwards compatibility on Windows is generally very good. I'm running
16-year old office software, Paint Shop Pro 10, and many other programs
of a similar age. Even on this month's Windows-10 Anniversary Edition.

On the other hand, almost all software and the operating system on my
iPad 1 can no longer be updated, and is gradually stopping working (i.e.
the suppliers or Web sites no longer support the older, non-updateable
version).

you're comparing two totally different things.

first you brag about running 16 year old apps on windows (as if that's
a good thing), then you complain that you can't update apps on an
original ipad.

can't have it both ways.

and the 2nd gen ipad is *still* supported with ios 9.

Yup! My iPad2 is running iOS 9.3.4 without issue and all apps are
constantly updated and improved.

The most important observation with regard to this thread is, George
failed to maintain his bought copy of Aperture by updating it when
appropriate. Then he failed to heed all the noise regarding its demise
and he didn't take action to save and protect his work until it was too
late. Now he is going to have to jump through a number of hoops to save
things.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2016081407403892639-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

The most important observation with regard to this thread is, George
failed to maintain his bought copy of Aperture by updating it when
appropriate. Then he failed to heed all the noise regarding its demise
and he didn't take action to save and protect his work until it was too
late. Now he is going to have to jump through a number of hoops to save
things.

yep, although it's not that many hoops to update it.

as i said early on, pebkac.

| It's true that the Win95 API is still there.
|
| it's also true that modern software (and even not so modern) isn't
| using the win95 apis anymore.
|

Not using the Win95 APIs would be *very* difficult,
except for things like .Net software that wraps those
APIs. Basic Windows functions, such as deleting a file
or reading from the Registry, date back to the original
API functions. If it worked in Win95 it works now.
Graphic functions such as managing an image as a
byte array, to allow for such things as resizing,
sharpening, etc, also date to gdi.dll in Win95.

| that's why they require win7 or later, sometimes win8 or later. even xp
| or later for some older stuff, and usually sp3.
|

That's an interesting issue. You're talking
about what might be called "forward compatibility",
which is not the same problem as backward
compatibility that George Kerby is dealing with.

Writing for forward compatibility means writing
software in such a way that it optimizes compatibility
by not using newer APIs unnecessarily, so as
not to break the software on older systems.
It's similar to the idea of writing webpages so
that most browsers can render them properly, by
not using the very latest HTML or CSS methods.
But some bad or ignorant programmers are like
Apple in that way, always assuming the very latest
hardware and software. I remember a program once
that I think broke in Win95 when the Win98 version
came out. After some investigation I discovered
the problem was that the Win98 release was using
a new function FlashWindowEx, which allows for
creating a flashing effect, to draw attention to an
inactive window without forcing it to the top. For
that trivial ability the programmer had broked
compatibility with Win95! I'm guessing it was just
ignorance on his part. Or maybe laziness. Maybe
he had a Win98 market and just couldn't be bothered
to support his older Win95 customers. But I guess
it might also have been Lord Jobs logic: If we don't
break it they won't buy another one.