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Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 4th 12, 08:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Bowser
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Posts: 231
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 08:23:46 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Not a surprise I guess, given they only have one camera and it will
likely be cancelled soon anyway.

http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/lens_chart.html


No surprise here. But Sigma has not bailed on micro 4/3, which is
where all the 4/3 action is now anyway. "old" 4/3 is dead.
  #2  
Old March 5th 12, 03:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rich[_6_]
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Posts: 1,081
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

Bowser wrote in
news
On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 08:23:46 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Not a surprise I guess, given they only have one camera and it will
likely be cancelled soon anyway.

http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/lens_chart.html


No surprise here. But Sigma has not bailed on micro 4/3, which is
where all the 4/3 action is now anyway. "old" 4/3 is dead.


Jury is still out on 4/3, but there is no reason not to kill it.
  #3  
Old March 5th 12, 02:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Bowser
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Posts: 231
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 10:51:07 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Rich wrote:

Bowser wrote in
news
On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 08:23:46 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Not a surprise I guess, given they only have one camera and it will
likely be cancelled soon anyway.

http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/lens_chart.html

No surprise here. But Sigma has not bailed on micro 4/3, which is
where all the 4/3 action is now anyway. "old" 4/3 is dead.


Jury is still out on 4/3, but there is no reason not to kill it.



There's a very good reason not to kill it: Olympus has tens of
thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of unsold 4/3 lenses that
it needs to get rid of. That's why there will be another E-System
DSLR.

But Sigma's withdrawal from the market isn't a surprise. The Sigma
4/3 lenses were lenses designed for APS-C cameras, minimally altered
by providing a 4/3 mount and interface.

Sigma never took 4/3 at all seriously.


That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.
  #4  
Old March 5th 12, 03:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
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Posts: 1,116
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
[]
I would like to see Sigma take m4/3 seriously, but that would mean
making lenses with focal lengths that were suited to the target market
rather than just sticking an m4/3 mount on lenses for APS-C.


... although optically preferable to sticking an APS-C mount on a 4/3 or
micro-4/3 lens! G

David

  #5  
Old March 5th 12, 05:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

Bowser writes:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.


Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #6  
Old March 5th 12, 08:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.


Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)


you must be incredibly lucky. most people need to go through 3 or 4
copies of a sigma lens to get one that actually works properly and is
not decentered or has other problems.

as for aggressive, i suppose you could call it aggressive when they
stole nikon's stabilization patents to use it for their own lenses.
unfortunately for sigma, they're being sued by nikon. they also stole
canon's ef protocol for their own sigma mount lenses. nice honest
folks. not.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1306345284.html

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).


sigma macros are mostly ok, however, the 12-24 is not that great. the
120-400 is junk, as is its almost identical twin, the 150-500.

lensrentals ceased carrying most sigma lenses because of constant
problems. the 120-400 and the 150-500 had a nearly 50% failure rate,
but at least you didn't get the 120-300 with its very impressive 90%
failure rate.
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.09.20/lens-repair-data-10
  #7  
Old March 5th 12, 09:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

Bruce writes:

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

Bowser writes:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.


Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).



The first two are excellent lenses. I have never used the 120-400mm
so cannot comment.


It's pretty good. Not as good as the Nikon 200-400/4, but I got it for
1/5 the price, that Nikon wasn't on the list. I haven't owned both, but
many reviews say it's better than the Nikon 80-400. I have a friend
with that one, but we haven't done a side-by-side test.

But all Sigma lenses, no matter how good they are optically, are
afflicted by poor build quality. The use of double sided adhesive
tape to hold components in place is unforgivable. The frequent lack
of proper collimation means that even very good lens designs and well
made lens elements fail to realise the potential of the designs,
except of course in the case of magazine review samples which are
always supremely well built.


Yes, build quality is one of the things that the way photo products are
"tested" gets us no information at all about. The lensrentals.com
report on their attempt to rent out high-bucks Sigma lenses is rather
depressing, due to a very high level of issues such as you describe.

The 105mm macro and 12-24mm DG lenses appear well designed and
reasonably well made, at least outwardly. I will take your word for
it that the 120-400mm is too. It is just a pity that those standards
do not extend to the whole Sigma range.


I got stuck losing both my short and my long lenses when I found myself
unexpectedlly going to full-frame after a couple of DX DSLRs (the D700
was more aggressively priced than I had anticipated any time soon, and
had more of the D3 goodness than I had anticipated). Had to do
something fairly drastic, and hadn't budgeted for it. Hence the 12-24
and the 120-400; the 105 macro I got for film back around 1999.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #8  
Old March 5th 12, 09:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

nospam writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.


Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)


you must be incredibly lucky. most people need to go through 3 or 4
copies of a sigma lens to get one that actually works properly and is
not decentered or has other problems.


I've never heard anybody claim it's *that* bad, and none of the other
Sigma owners I know have had bad problems.

as for aggressive, i suppose you could call it aggressive when they
stole nikon's stabilization patents to use it for their own lenses.
unfortunately for sigma, they're being sued by nikon. they also stole
canon's ef protocol for their own sigma mount lenses. nice honest
folks. not.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1306345284.html


I'm really against the ability to patent lens mount interfaces anyway.

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).


sigma macros are mostly ok, however, the 12-24 is not that great. the
120-400 is junk, as is its almost identical twin, the 150-500.


The 120-400 routinely gets better marks than the Nikon 80-400, which was
the other primary candidate. And was several hundred dollars cheaper.
It's not of course as good as the Nikon 200-400, say -- but my budget
doesn't go anywhere near that neighborhood.

My main lenses are the Nikon 24-70/2.8 and the Nikon 70-200/2.8 (VRI,
though), but when I went back to full-frame somewhat unexpectedly I lost
both my long end (70-200 no longer had 300mm FOV) and my short end (the
Tokina 12-24 was DX), and I desperately needed to do something.

lensrentals ceased carrying most sigma lenses because of constant
problems. the 120-400 and the 150-500 had a nearly 50% failure rate,
but at least you didn't get the 120-300 with its very impressive 90%
failure rate.
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.09.20/lens-repair-data-10


Yep, I just mentioned that (without the link, thanks for being more
specific) in another message. I'm not working them professionally. In
the past I've had excellent results with Soligor, Vivitar, Tamron, and
Tokina lenses.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #9  
Old March 5th 12, 11:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.

Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)


you must be incredibly lucky. most people need to go through 3 or 4
copies of a sigma lens to get one that actually works properly and is
not decentered or has other problems.


I've never heard anybody claim it's *that* bad, and none of the other
Sigma owners I know have had bad problems.


they're either very lucky or blind to the defects.

as for aggressive, i suppose you could call it aggressive when they
stole nikon's stabilization patents to use it for their own lenses.
unfortunately for sigma, they're being sued by nikon. they also stole
canon's ef protocol for their own sigma mount lenses. nice honest
folks. not.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1306345284.html


I'm really against the ability to patent lens mount interfaces anyway.


the lens mount patents have long expired. sigma mount lenses are
nothing more than sigma's canon mount lenses with a slightly modified
pentax mount plate. a lot of sigma camera owners modify canon lenses or
the camera itself so they're not stuck with only sigma lenses.

on the other hand, infringing nikon's stabilization patents is a whole
'nuther ball game. minolta did something similar by infringing
autofocus patents and paid a hefty sum.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/08/bu...t-must-pay-hon
eywell.html?pagewanted=all

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).


sigma macros are mostly ok, however, the 12-24 is not that great. the
120-400 is junk, as is its almost identical twin, the 150-500.


The 120-400 routinely gets better marks than the Nikon 80-400, which was
the other primary candidate. And was several hundred dollars cheaper.
It's not of course as good as the Nikon 200-400, say -- but my budget
doesn't go anywhere near that neighborhood.


the nikon 80-400 is old and not particularly good. it's *long* overdue
for replacement. the nikon 70-300 vr is as good or better in the common
ranges and it's autofocus is much faster too. the downside is it only
goes to 300 but that's not a big deal since the 80-400 was soft by 400.

the nikon 200-400, on the other hand, is in a class to itself. it's an
outstanding lens, and expensive too.

fi you can get a working sigma 120-400 then it might suffice but the
chances are very high it will fail.

My main lenses are the Nikon 24-70/2.8 and the Nikon 70-200/2.8 (VRI,
though), but when I went back to full-frame somewhat unexpectedly I lost
both my long end (70-200 no longer had 300mm FOV) and my short end (the
Tokina 12-24 was DX), and I desperately needed to do something.


those are all very good lenses, including the tokina. have you
considered the nikon 14-24? that is also an outstanding lens.

lensrentals ceased carrying most sigma lenses because of constant
problems. the 120-400 and the 150-500 had a nearly 50% failure rate,
but at least you didn't get the 120-300 with its very impressive 90%
failure rate.
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.09.20/lens-repair-data-10


Yep, I just mentioned that (without the link, thanks for being more
specific) in another message. I'm not working them professionally. In
the past I've had excellent results with Soligor, Vivitar, Tamron, and
Tokina lenses.


except that lensrentals had failures out of the box. worse, sigma
refused to repair them, citing 'user damage.' rather amusing for a lens
that never saw any users.
  #10  
Old March 6th 12, 12:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Dyer-Bennet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,814
Default Sigma bails on Olympus 4/3rds

nospam writes:

In article , David Dyer-Bennet
wrote:

That's OK. Most of us rarely take Sigma seriously. Except for the
occasional good lens, most of their stuff is crap.

Sigma is one of the most aggressive lens companies lately, and has made
some outstandingly good lenses. I've never had a bad lens from them.
(Then again, I've chosen all my lenses, from them and others, after
considerable research.)

you must be incredibly lucky. most people need to go through 3 or 4
copies of a sigma lens to get one that actually works properly and is
not decentered or has other problems.


I've never heard anybody claim it's *that* bad, and none of the other
Sigma owners I know have had bad problems.


they're either very lucky or blind to the defects.


Always possible, of course. I alternate between thinking that might
include me, and thinking that many of the people who rhapsodize about
how exotic lenses render images are smoking something.

as for aggressive, i suppose you could call it aggressive when they
stole nikon's stabilization patents to use it for their own lenses.
unfortunately for sigma, they're being sued by nikon. they also stole
canon's ef protocol for their own sigma mount lenses. nice honest
folks. not.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1306345284.html


I'm really against the ability to patent lens mount interfaces anyway.


the lens mount patents have long expired. sigma mount lenses are
nothing more than sigma's canon mount lenses with a slightly modified
pentax mount plate. a lot of sigma camera owners modify canon lenses or
the camera itself so they're not stuck with only sigma lenses.

on the other hand, infringing nikon's stabilization patents is a whole
'nuther ball game. minolta did something similar by infringing
autofocus patents and paid a hefty sum.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/08/bu...t-must-pay-hon
eywell.html?pagewanted=all


Yeah, that represents more of a real invention (and more recently). If
they've infringed, well, the courts will sort it out.

(Happy owner of Sigma 105/2.8 macro, 12-24/4.5 full-frame,
120-400/4.5-5.6).

sigma macros are mostly ok, however, the 12-24 is not that great. the
120-400 is junk, as is its almost identical twin, the 150-500.


The 120-400 routinely gets better marks than the Nikon 80-400, which was
the other primary candidate. And was several hundred dollars cheaper.
It's not of course as good as the Nikon 200-400, say -- but my budget
doesn't go anywhere near that neighborhood.


the nikon 80-400 is old and not particularly good. it's *long* overdue
for replacement. the nikon 70-300 vr is as good or better in the common
ranges and it's autofocus is much faster too. the downside is it only
goes to 300 but that's not a big deal since the 80-400 was soft by 400.


Well, getting the 1.4x converter gives me nearly 300mm, at a full f/4,
and pretty good images.

My real stupidity, probably, was not just getting the 2x converter as
well. That's considerably cheaper than the Sigma, also lighter to carry
around, and leaves me exactly the same 400mm f/5.6 max end result, and
probably (I tested the 1.7x but not the 2x) equal optics.

the nikon 200-400, on the other hand, is in a class to itself. it's an
outstanding lens, and expensive too.


Heavy, as well. If I won the lottery, either it or the 400/2.8 would be
on the same B&H order as the D4 and the D800, but short of that, I think
I'll keep shooting my D700 and Sigma 120-400 for a while yet.

fi you can get a working sigma 120-400 then it might suffice but the
chances are very high it will fail.


I've had it something like 3 years now, shot quite a lot with it, often
past 300mm (I've got the TC14E when I don't need past 280mm).

My main lenses are the Nikon 24-70/2.8 and the Nikon 70-200/2.8 (VRI,
though), but when I went back to full-frame somewhat unexpectedly I lost
both my long end (70-200 no longer had 300mm FOV) and my short end (the
Tokina 12-24 was DX), and I desperately needed to do something.


those are all very good lenses, including the tokina. have you
considered the nikon 14-24? that is also an outstanding lens.


Yes, somewhat longingly. It's also rather more expensive. (I'd played
with a friend's Sigma 12-24 full-frame a few years previously, so I had
some first-hand experience when I bought mine.)

lensrentals ceased carrying most sigma lenses because of constant
problems. the 120-400 and the 150-500 had a nearly 50% failure rate,
but at least you didn't get the 120-300 with its very impressive 90%
failure rate.
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.09.20/lens-repair-data-10


Yep, I just mentioned that (without the link, thanks for being more
specific) in another message. I'm not working them professionally. In
the past I've had excellent results with Soligor, Vivitar, Tamron, and
Tokina lenses.


except that lensrentals had failures out of the box. worse, sigma
refused to repair them, citing 'user damage.' rather amusing for a lens
that never saw any users.


Yes, and they're paying the price for that now as people read
lensrentals.com's articles.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
 




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