35mm film, how much longer?

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
Bandicoot wrote:
"no_name" wrote:
jeremy wrote:
Does anyone really believe that all film will suddenly disappear?
Some of the digirati are hoping.
One has to wonder why ... [tea Vs coffee]
horse and buggy ... [Vs] ... automobile.

Psychological? Maybe the digirati wonder if they have spent
money wisely on a technology in flux [though that does not seem to
be an American trait]. And it isn't like the film camp doesn't
stick its finger in the binary eye. I think both sides
have doubts and cover them up with bombast.

jeremy wrote:
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
...

The coffee and tea analogy is not really appropriate as they are
concurrent.
A more appropriate analogy might be the horse and buggy being superceded
by
the automobile. The process took about 30 years, but then it was largely
complete. Only the Amish hold out now.



Don't bet the farm on that prediction.

There is no talk whatsoever about digital being able to even come close to
the quality of 4x5 or 8x10. Digital is certainly well on its way to
replacing film for consumer and advanced amateur applications, but studio
work with LF remains the domain of film.


It hasn't been 30 years either. Digital sensors will grow to accommodate
demand and will be priced according the market. Time is all that is required.
The writing is on the wall. I wish it weren't so as I really love using slide
film.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

jeremy wrote:

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
. ..

The coffee and tea analogy is not really appropriate as they are
concurrent.
A more appropriate analogy might be the horse and buggy being superceded
by
the automobile. The process took about 30 years, but then it was largely
complete. Only the Amish hold out now.



Don't bet the farm on that prediction.

There is no talk whatsoever about digital being able to even come close to
the quality of 4x5 or 8x10. Digital is certainly well on its way to
replacing film for consumer and advanced amateur applications, but studio
work with LF remains the domain of film.



It hasn't been 30 years either. Digital sensors will grow to accommodate
demand and will be priced according the market. Time is all that is required.
The writing is on the wall. I wish it weren't so as I really love using slide
film.


I expect in the digital world of the future, there'll be a lot more
"Amish" hold outs.

It's not a bad anology btw, somebody still makes buggy's for the Amish
to buy.

--

These are my views. If you've got a problem with it, you can blame it on
me, but this is what I think. I am not the official spokes-person for
any Government, Commercial or Educational institution.

John

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:

Bandicoot wrote:

"no_name" wrote:

jeremy wrote:

Does anyone really believe that all film will suddenly disappear?

Some of the digirati are hoping.

One has to wonder why ... [tea Vs coffee]

horse and buggy ... [Vs] ... automobile.


Psychological? Maybe the digirati wonder if they have spent
money wisely on a technology in flux [though that does not seem to
be an American trait]. And it isn't like the film camp doesn't
stick its finger in the binary eye. I think both sides
have doubts and cover them up with bombast.



And then there are some with feet in both camps. I've got film & digital
cameras, using them as I think appropriate to the work I want to do.

--

These are my views. If you've got a problem with it, you can blame it on
me, but this is what I think. I am not the official spokes-person for
any Government, Commercial or Educational institution.

John

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message
link.net...

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
Bandicoot wrote:
"no_name" wrote:
jeremy wrote:
Does anyone really believe that all film will suddenly disappear?
Some of the digirati are hoping.
One has to wonder why ... [tea Vs coffee]
horse and buggy ... [Vs] ... automobile.

Psychological? Maybe the digirati wonder if they have spent
money wisely on a technology in flux [though that does not seem to
be an American trait]. And it isn't like the film camp doesn't
stick its finger in the binary eye. I think both sides
have doubts and cover them up with bombast.



Truth is, nobody knows what future developments will bring.

I concede that, if digital can yield all the advantages of film, there would
be little reason not to switch. Film would go the way of the wind-up alarm
clock. But I suspect that there may be some areas where film is more
appropriate to produce the results that a photographer wants. So I don't
see it completely disappearing, although it may shrink to becoming a very
small percentage of the overall photo market.

But I do predict that one-hour or drug store photofinishers will one day
become as extinct as Fotomat booths. The American consumer is going to be
all-digital. Of that I am convinced.

no_name wrote:
I expect in the digital world of the future, there'll be a lot more
"Amish" hold outs.

It's not a bad anology btw, somebody still makes buggy's for the Amish
to buy.

It IS a bad analogy. One can make a buggy in one's barn. You can hire a
handfull of skilled people and make buggies with a small investment
in hand tools. If you are not making buggies, you can make furniture.

How much does it cost to make a production run of film? How much does
it cost to be able to make one (startup costs?)

What do you do with the factory and its employees between production
runs?

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
no_name wrote:
I expect in the digital world of the future, there'll be a lot more
"Amish" hold outs.

It's not a bad anology btw, somebody still makes buggy's for the Amish
to buy.

It IS a bad analogy. One can make a buggy in one's barn. You can hire a
handfull of skilled people and make buggies with a small investment
in hand tools. If you are not making buggies, you can make furniture.


The analogy wasn't about the Amish ... that was just a quip. The analogy was
the transition from horse and buggy to automobiles. It is a valid analogy.

How much does it cost to make a production run of film? How much does
it cost to be able to make one (startup costs?)


In the case of film, when demand slips that far, film will cease to exist,
except in freezers or very exoctic uses that don't demand a constant supply
(i.e. made to order). It is still a long way off.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote

In the case of film, when demand slips that far, film will cease to exist,

They were making film in 1890, can't be that hard to do with
horse-and-buggy technology. Maybe the Amish will be the last
source for Tri-X?

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
.. .
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
no_name wrote:
I expect in the digital world of the future, there'll be a lot more
"Amish" hold outs.

It's not a bad anology btw, somebody still makes buggy's for the Amish
to buy.

It IS a bad analogy. One can make a buggy in one's barn. You can hire a
handfull of skilled people and make buggies with a small investment
in hand tools. If you are not making buggies, you can make furniture.


The analogy wasn't about the Amish ... that was just a quip. The analogy
was
the transition from horse and buggy to automobiles. It is a valid
analogy.

How much does it cost to make a production run of film? How much does
it cost to be able to make one (startup costs?)


In the case of film, when demand slips that far, film will cease to exist,
except in freezers or very exoctic uses that don't demand a constant
supply
(i.e. made to order). It is still a long way off.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1




If the major players were to license the formulae, someone would make the
stuff.

Of course, it would not be of much value if the photofinishers, chemical
manufacturers, enlarger manufacturers, etc. were all to exit the business.
But by that time digital will have become as comfortable and versatile as an
old shoe, and we won't be fretting over this issue any more.

Alan Browne wrote:
Tom Williams wrote:
I have a D70s digital SLR, but recently I'm finding an attraction to going
back to film. I'd like some professional estimations on how long 35mm film
will still be available, and used in the U.S. Not necessarily main stream,
but still fairly common?

I picked up some developed medium format slide film yesterday and to
judge by the "film" bin at the store (a higher end store catering to
dedicated amateurs and pros), there was still a lot of avialable film
and processing going on.

The "better" films will probably be with us for a while yet.


I had trouble today getting film developed ... in anything less than 24h
that is, because the machines at the place I normaly develop film were
simply too busy. Summer appears to have brought on a large increase of
film use compared to ... say spring. UNprecedentedly warm and cludless
summer in Europe probably helped.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++