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Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 11th 09, 09:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Chris Malcolm[_2_]
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Posts: 3,142
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:04:28 -0500, Don Stauffer
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:
Seems to be old news, but I can't remember having seen this posted he

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...69E/index.html

"The newly developed CMOS image sensor achieves a signal-to-noise ratio
of +8dB(+6dB sensitivity, -2dB noise) in comparison to existing Sony
CMOS image sensors of the same pixel size. Sony will apply this back-
illuminated CMOS technology in consumer digital video camcorders and
digital still cameras to deliver an even higher quality image
experience."

Pixel pitch 1.75 ?, 5MP

In any case, this technology has no reached the consumer sector.



Something seems not quite right. 8db is not a great SNR in my book.


It doesn't say that. It says "in comparison"


It says +8db, not 8, and what is more specifies that the +8 is made up
of +6 sensitivity and -2 noise. None of that makes any sense at all
except in terms of comparative differences. Numerical db differentials
are usually how engineers make these comparisons.

--
Chris Malcolm
  #12  
Old July 11th 09, 09:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:04:28 -0500, Don Stauffer wrote:

"The newly developed CMOS image sensor achieves a signal-to-noise ratio
of +8dB(+6dB sensitivity, -2dB noise) in comparison to existing Sony
CMOS image sensors of the same pixel size. Sony will apply this back-
illuminated CMOS technology in consumer digital video camcorders and
digital still cameras to deliver an even higher quality image
experience."

Pixel pitch 1.75 µ, 5MP

In any case, this technology has no reached the consumer sector.



Something seems not quite right. 8db is not a great SNR in my book.


I've seen a couple of posts in the DPR forums by those who seem to
be quite knowledgeable claiming that backlighting does work, but
that the larger the pixel size, the less effective it becomes. Have
you heard anything like this?

  #13  
Old July 11th 09, 10:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Idiots R They
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Posts: 1
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:23:19 -0400, ASAAR wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:04:28 -0500, Don Stauffer wrote:

"The newly developed CMOS image sensor achieves a signal-to-noise ratio
of +8dB(+6dB sensitivity, -2dB noise) in comparison to existing Sony
CMOS image sensors of the same pixel size. Sony will apply this back-
illuminated CMOS technology in consumer digital video camcorders and
digital still cameras to deliver an even higher quality image
experience."

Pixel pitch 1.75 µ, 5MP

In any case, this technology has no reached the consumer sector.



Something seems not quite right. 8db is not a great SNR in my book.


I've seen a couple of posts in the DPR forums by those who seem to
be quite knowledgeable claiming that backlighting does work, but
that the larger the pixel size, the less effective it becomes. Have
you heard anything like this?


Well duh, ASSAR, one only has to see the kindergartner's graphics on that
page to see why.

Holy **** are you ever an idiot troll. Not even a half-assed one.

I guess the reason backlighting is just a fad and a marketing ploy is the
same reason that the very best astrophotographers used only these kinds of
sensors for many years, at great cost.

Damn, are you trolls ever slow to the trough. I guess that's why you are
trolls and have no other life nor knowledge of any other life.

  #14  
Old July 11th 09, 11:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
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Posts: 6,057
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:01:00 -0500, Idiots R US wrote:

I've seen a couple of posts in the DPR forums by those who seem to
be quite knowledgeable claiming that backlighting does work, but
that the larger the pixel size, the less effective it becomes. Have
you heard anything like this?


Well duh, ASSAR, one only has to see the kindergartner's graphics on that
page to see why.

Holy **** are you ever an idiot troll. Not even a half-assed one.


Must be, since I didn't explicitly point out that this useful new
sensor design would obviously be more beneficial for your teeny
pixel P&S buddies and less useful for the DSLRs that you loathe. You
seem to be devolving by the hour. Is there anything we can do to
help?


. . .

Speed up the process, that is.

  #15  
Old July 11th 09, 11:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

In article , ASAAR says...

I've seen a couple of posts in the DPR forums by those who seem to
be quite knowledgeable claiming that backlighting does work, but
that the larger the pixel size, the less effective it becomes. Have
you heard anything like this?


The problem with front-illumination is among others the wiring
obstructing the image sensitive area.

With huge pixels the percentage of pixel area covered by wiring is
probably smaller than with small pixelsand this could be a factor.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #16  
Old July 11th 09, 11:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

In article , Paul Furman
says...
Alfred Molon wrote:
SMS says...
Alfred Molon wrote:
SMS says...

You're right, but remember these are small sensors with a small pixel pitch. A full frame sensor will typically have a SNR of over 35dB, and a pixel pitch 4-5 times larger. A typical professional video camera will have an SNR of over 60db.

Maybe 8dB is an improvement in the consumer market.

An increment of 8dB is an increase by a factor of 2.5.


So it was 12dB, now 20dB?


What was 12 dB?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #17  
Old July 12th 09, 12:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:45:53 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:

The problem with front-illumination is among others the wiring
obstructing the image sensitive area.

With huge pixels the percentage of pixel area covered by wiring is
probably smaller than with small pixelsand this could be a factor.


Sounds reasonable, but then other than the placement of the wires,
is there any significant difference between front and rear
illumination sensels and possibly the semiconductor's type (such as
P vs. N) first exposed to photons?

  #18  
Old July 12th 09, 08:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise


? "ASAAR" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:45:53 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:

The problem with front-illumination is among others the wiring
obstructing the image sensitive area.

With huge pixels the percentage of pixel area covered by wiring is
probably smaller than with small pixelsand this could be a factor.


Sounds reasonable, but then other than the placement of the wires,
is there any significant difference between front and rear
illumination sensels and possibly the semiconductor's type (such as
P vs. N) first exposed to photons?

I think greater quantum efficiency.


--
Tzortzakakis Dimitris
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr


  #19  
Old July 14th 09, 12:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Rich[_6_]
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Posts: 1,081
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivity and low noise

Alfred Molon wrote in
:

Seems to be old news, but I can't remember having seen this posted he

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...69E/index.html

"The newly developed CMOS image sensor achieves a signal-to-noise ratio
of +8dB(+6dB sensitivity, -2dB noise) in comparison to existing Sony
CMOS image sensors of the same pixel size. Sony will apply this back-
illuminated CMOS technology in consumer digital video camcorders and
digital still cameras to deliver an even higher quality image
experience."

Pixel pitch 1.75 µ, 5MP

In any case, this technology has no reached the consumer sector.


Not from any Jap manufacturer. They had this for consumer-aimed scientific
CCDs for years.
  #20  
Old July 14th 09, 02:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Sony develops back-illuminated CMOS sensor, with twofold sensitivityand low noise

Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Paul Furman
says...
Alfred Molon wrote:
SMS says...
Alfred Molon wrote:
SMS says...

You're right, but remember these are small sensors with a small pixel pitch. A full frame sensor will typically have a SNR of over 35dB, and a pixel pitch 4-5 times larger. A typical professional video camera will have an SNR of over 60db.

Maybe 8dB is an improvement in the consumer market.

An increment of 8dB is an increase by a factor of 2.5.

So it was 12dB, now 20dB?


What was 12 dB?


Whatever increased by 8 dB, I don't know.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 




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