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  #821  
Old April 16th 05, 05:20 PM
Alan Browne
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Big Bill wrote:


And you want to make it worse.


No. Any stress on an economic system will ultimately make it worse.
Balance is needed to remove stress. Consumption at current rates is a
stress on the economy, mid east tension, the environment, etc.

Greedy idiots went out of control in the interest of profits. It is
inevitable that the house of cards will collapse and you can be sure
that the greedy idiots won't help clean up the mess, be it environmental
or economic.

In the quotes from the newspapers I provided you can see the heavy hand
of special interests trying to get their responsibilty for cleanup
removed by their stooges in the US Congress. It is sad that "We the
people" elect these representatives, but "We the greenback" tells those
reps what to do when they get there... In the US, you are being raped
be big money special interests. And you tax dollar is subsidizing their
greed.

--
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  #822  
Old April 19th 05, 05:29 AM
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:07:49 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:22:03 GMT, wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:09:51 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:35:05 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

And you want to make sure they are outlawed?

No, just tax them and the fuel they burn until nobody buys them.

Ah, so you want to get all Hummers off the roads, including those that
are used in businesses?


The social and environmental costs are no different just
because a business uses the vehicle. Notice that businesses can always
afford things which the average consumer could nt justify on the basis
of occasional need. So if the business really needs one of the
guzzlers, let them pay in accordance with the social costs of their
choice.


And, of course, you are willing to visit the higher prices on commerce
this would require on everyone, not just yourself.
Sure, this is workable. In a police state, certainly not in the US.


Lessee -- DNA sample taken at time of arrest in CA, not after
conviction; audio/video surveillance (2 video; 4 audio) on all San
Francisco municipal buses and streetcars; 2 video pickups on BART
cars; bureaucrat says the tapes will be kept for 7 years; immediately
available to police; 4-way video cameras at any intersection worth
noticing; video every half mile or less on freeways.

Jeez, I can hardly wait for the real police state to arrive.




And just how do you propose to tax the gas for Hummers (and, I will
suppose, other vehicles you don't like)?

Let's stop the whining, and get down to brass tacks: how do you want
to do this? Make a workable proposal, as I did in another post.


  #823  
Old April 19th 05, 05:36 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:20:56 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

Big Bill wrote:


And you want to make it worse.


No. Any stress on an economic system will ultimately make it worse.
Balance is needed to remove stress. Consumption at current rates is a
stress on the economy, mid east tension, the environment, etc.

Greedy idiots went out of control in the interest of profits. It is
inevitable that the house of cards will collapse and you can be sure
that the greedy idiots won't help clean up the mess, be it environmental
or economic.


It'll be both. They finally just passed a bill to allow
drilling in ANWAR, allegedly to promote energy independence. However,
suggest to an oil executive that the output can only be used in
America and he'll look at you as if you had two heads.

If Uncle Mao puts in a higher bid than Uncle Sam, Sam can bend
over and spread his cheeks. And the oil fat cats will get fatter.

Screw your wilderness as long as China wants what's under it
and can back up the want with bucks.

In the quotes from the newspapers I provided you can see the heavy hand
of special interests trying to get their responsibilty for cleanup
removed by their stooges in the US Congress. It is sad that "We the
people" elect these representatives, but "We the greenback" tells those
reps what to do when they get there... In the US, you are being raped
be big money special interests. And you tax dollar is subsidizing their
greed.


  #824  
Old April 19th 05, 05:41 AM
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:11:33 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:11:41 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:26:19 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:32:03 GMT,
wrote:

Similarly, I have know of a company which, when fuel was being
switched to unleaded, cancelled their plans to buy a fleet of half-ton
vans in favor of totally unneeded full-ton vans because the larger
vehicles were still allowed to use the slightly cheaper leaded fuel.

Damn the environment -- full business ahead.

Why those, those sputter CAPITALISTS!
How dare they even *THINK* of their bottom line!
That's UnAmerican!


Thank you for your heroic essay n social and environmental
responsibility. Sometimes, when there's little actual benefit to the
bottom line, it would be nice to consider other issues. Unless you
think think ten cents to the bottom line is worth more than anything
else on earth.


I don't think you understand.
Businesses don't run on morals, they run on money.
I kno wyou'd like them to run on your morals, but I sugest you start
your own business and rival the big boys, and see how well that works.
Idealism makes for wondefful discussions, but when you start to think
that ideals run business, you just don't understand reality.
Amnd that's your problem he you want your ideals to be the basis of
business (everyone's business) and it just won't happen.


Certainly not while business is allowed to screw everyone in
their path, including the entire USA, because they have no social
obligation.

While we're at it, let's get rid of those goddamned intrusive
and restrictive child labor laws so our kids can start pulling their
own weight like the kids in China and India. They're wasting fourteen
years of precious productivity ****ing away their (and my) time in
school until the age of eighteen,
  #825  
Old April 19th 05, 05:41 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:11:33 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:11:41 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:26:19 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:32:03 GMT,
wrote:

Similarly, I have know of a company which, when fuel was being
switched to unleaded, cancelled their plans to buy a fleet of half-ton
vans in favor of totally unneeded full-ton vans because the larger
vehicles were still allowed to use the slightly cheaper leaded fuel.

Damn the environment -- full business ahead.

Why those, those sputter CAPITALISTS!
How dare they even *THINK* of their bottom line!
That's UnAmerican!


Thank you for your heroic essay n social and environmental
responsibility. Sometimes, when there's little actual benefit to the
bottom line, it would be nice to consider other issues. Unless you
think think ten cents to the bottom line is worth more than anything
else on earth.


I don't think you understand.
Businesses don't run on morals, they run on money.
I kno wyou'd like them to run on your morals, but I sugest you start
your own business and rival the big boys, and see how well that works.
Idealism makes for wondefful discussions, but when you start to think
that ideals run business, you just don't understand reality.
Amnd that's your problem he you want your ideals to be the basis of
business (everyone's business) and it just won't happen.


Certainly not while business is allowed to screw everyone in
their path, including the entire USA, because they have no social
obligation.

While we're at it, let's get rid of those goddamned intrusive
and restrictive child labor laws so our kids can start pulling their
own weight like the kids in China and India. They're wasting fourteen
years of precious productivity ****ing away their (and my) time in
school until the age of eighteen,
  #826  
Old April 19th 05, 08:44 AM
Ron Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:07:49 -0700, Big Bill wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:22:03 GMT,
wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:09:51 -0700, Big Bill wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:35:05 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:


And you want to make sure they are outlawed?

No, just tax them and the fuel they burn until nobody buys them.

Ah, so you want to get all Hummers off the roads, including those that
are used in businesses?

The social and environmental costs are no different just
because a business uses the vehicle. Notice that businesses can always
afford things which the average consumer could nt justify on the basis
of occasional need. So if the business really needs one of the
guzzlers, let them pay in accordance with the social costs of their
choice.


And, of course, you are willing to visit the higher prices on commerce
this would require on everyone, not just yourself.
Sure, this is workable. In a police state, certainly not in the US.



Lessee -- DNA sample taken at time of arrest in CA, not after
conviction; audio/video surveillance (2 video; 4 audio) on all San
Francisco municipal buses and streetcars; 2 video pickups on BART
cars; bureaucrat says the tapes will be kept for 7 years; immediately
available to police; 4-way video cameras at any intersection worth
noticing; video every half mile or less on freeways.

Jeez, I can hardly wait for the real police state to arrive.



And just how do you propose to tax the gas for Hummers (and, I will
suppose, other vehicles you don't like)?

Let's stop the whining, and get down to brass tacks: how do you want
to do this? Make a workable proposal, as I did in another post.



Mere observation ability doesn't equate to a 'police state'. Only when
that ability is used, in a general way, to oppress. Are you being
oppressed? I thought not.
Potential is not actual. If it were, the fact that you have a butcher
knife in your kitchen would imply you intend to murder your family.


--
Ron Hunter

  #827  
Old April 19th 05, 08:44 AM
Ron Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:07:49 -0700, Big Bill wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:22:03 GMT,
wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:09:51 -0700, Big Bill wrote:


On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:35:05 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:


And you want to make sure they are outlawed?

No, just tax them and the fuel they burn until nobody buys them.

Ah, so you want to get all Hummers off the roads, including those that
are used in businesses?

The social and environmental costs are no different just
because a business uses the vehicle. Notice that businesses can always
afford things which the average consumer could nt justify on the basis
of occasional need. So if the business really needs one of the
guzzlers, let them pay in accordance with the social costs of their
choice.


And, of course, you are willing to visit the higher prices on commerce
this would require on everyone, not just yourself.
Sure, this is workable. In a police state, certainly not in the US.



Lessee -- DNA sample taken at time of arrest in CA, not after
conviction; audio/video surveillance (2 video; 4 audio) on all San
Francisco municipal buses and streetcars; 2 video pickups on BART
cars; bureaucrat says the tapes will be kept for 7 years; immediately
available to police; 4-way video cameras at any intersection worth
noticing; video every half mile or less on freeways.

Jeez, I can hardly wait for the real police state to arrive.



And just how do you propose to tax the gas for Hummers (and, I will
suppose, other vehicles you don't like)?

Let's stop the whining, and get down to brass tacks: how do you want
to do this? Make a workable proposal, as I did in another post.



Mere observation ability doesn't equate to a 'police state'. Only when
that ability is used, in a general way, to oppress. Are you being
oppressed? I thought not.
Potential is not actual. If it were, the fact that you have a butcher
knife in your kitchen would imply you intend to murder your family.


--
Ron Hunter

  #828  
Old April 19th 05, 12:23 PM
Little Green Eyed Dragon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Ron Hunter wrote:

. If it were, the fact that you have a butcher
knife in your kitchen would imply you intend to murder your family.


Since that is the weapon of choice in a majority of domestic assault
cases.
  #829  
Old April 19th 05, 07:46 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 04:29:23 GMT, wrote:

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:07:49 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:22:03 GMT,
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:09:51 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:35:05 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

And you want to make sure they are outlawed?

No, just tax them and the fuel they burn until nobody buys them.

Ah, so you want to get all Hummers off the roads, including those that
are used in businesses?

The social and environmental costs are no different just
because a business uses the vehicle. Notice that businesses can always
afford things which the average consumer could nt justify on the basis
of occasional need. So if the business really needs one of the
guzzlers, let them pay in accordance with the social costs of their
choice.


And, of course, you are willing to visit the higher prices on commerce
this would require on everyone, not just yourself.
Sure, this is workable. In a police state, certainly not in the US.


Lessee -- DNA sample taken at time of arrest in CA, not after
conviction; audio/video surveillance (2 video; 4 audio) on all San
Francisco municipal buses and streetcars; 2 video pickups on BART
cars; bureaucrat says the tapes will be kept for 7 years; immediately
available to police; 4-way video cameras at any intersection worth
noticing; video every half mile or less on freeways.

Jeez, I can hardly wait for the real police state to arrive.


You obviously have no idea of what a police state is.

For starters, in a police state, you would have to justify your being
on a street at all. If your excuse doesn't seem real to the police,
you would be taken in for questioning. A questioning that could well
leave you permanantly disfugured or crippled.
Then, think about what "disappearing" means. in such a state.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #830  
Old April 19th 05, 07:48 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:23:27 GMT, Little Green Eyed Dragon
wrote:

In article ,
Ron Hunter wrote:

. If it were, the fact that you have a butcher
knife in your kitchen would imply you intend to murder your family.


Since that is the weapon of choice in a majority of domestic assault
cases.


Sure. Just like the AR-15 is the weapon of choice for all kinds of bad
people, from terrorists to drug dealers to schoolground killers.
Not!
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
 




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