20D or 5D

Mark² wrote:


"Stacey" wrote in message

Or is it that you can only use one flash or the other on a canon?

No, you can use any currently produced (and even a few no longer produced)
on any of Canon's DSLRs or recently (10 years or more) produced film
cameras. Not an issue.

So you can use the built in flash and an external flash, both in TTL auto
mode at the same time with a Canon? That was the question.


??
Oh... I got it. You're disappointed because I actually had a reason, and
that I had a reason spoiled your fun in assuming I was just blowing
"professional sounding" smoke by calling built-in flashes "pesky."
Sorry to disappoint you.

I feel many people just want it gone because "pro" camera models don't have
a built in flash. I find many times these come in handy for a little fill
ect when I'm not carrying around a huge bag with all my gear, YMMV

--

Stacey

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Mark² wrote:



I've posted this elsewhere, but I agree that they kinda goofed by
releasing that shot.



I don't think it's a "goof", I think it's just how it is with the present
wide canon lenses used on a FF digital camera body. You don't think anyone
at Canon noticed this?

It's possible that the people chosen to select "pretty images" didn't look
carefully enough.
I only think that because the entire image is poorly rendered, and sub-par
compared with other samples using the same lens on other Canon full frame
bodies. This shot doesn't look sharp *anywhere* (aside from the extra
crummy corners). This leads me to believe it is likely worse than typical,
since there is no reason that very sharp wide lens should look bad in the
center too.

If they "fix" this corner mush with a good zoom starting at 18-20mm (one
that is designed for digital use) that -IS- sharp to the corners, I might
be tempted to add one of these cameras to my bag. I'm not sure it can be
done with the present size lens mount and there is no way Canon would make
yet another lens mount change!

Take a look at other samples shown on dpreview's review of the 1DsM2 and
1Ds. It is much more sharply rendered, and uses a very similar sensor
(though the 5D's is newer). There is no reason to believe the 5D sensor
would be somehow worse.

Brian Baird wrote:

In article , says...
I've seen this same sort of thing from samples of wide canon glass used
on a 1DsmkII.

Care to post samples?

Go look at the DPreview canon site. Seen plenty of 1DsII samples that look
just like the one canon posted and again, since you have NO intention on
purchasing this, why are you -defending- yet another camera you'll never
own?

Just in case you're too lazy to look for yourself, check out the corners of
this image the canonits were all raving about. More mush.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9979424

Maybe using some old Zeiss distagon's in full manual mode works acceptably
well? If so, that in itself is sad.. The keep dumping new bodies out yet
can't be bother to make some good WA glass for them?
--

Stacey

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Mark² wrote:


"Stacey" wrote in message

Or is it that you can only use one flash or the other on a canon?

No, you can use any currently produced (and even a few no longer
produced)
on any of Canon's DSLRs or recently (10 years or more) produced film
cameras. Not an issue.

So you can use the built in flash and an external flash, both in TTL auto
mode at the same time with a Canon? That was the question.

Ah. Then no. I don't know of any. Maybe someone will correct me?

??
Oh... I got it. You're disappointed because I actually had a reason,
and
that I had a reason spoiled your fun in assuming I was just blowing
"professional sounding" smoke by calling built-in flashes "pesky."
Sorry to disappoint you.

I feel many people just want it gone because "pro" camera models don't
have
a built in flash.

I have no doubt that there are people who have silly reasons like that.
For me, I just find the built-in very sub to what you get with the shoe
mount to the point that it's not worth the loss. On the other hand, I think
the built-ins on the Canons do surprisingly well for their size.

I find many times these come in handy for a little fill
ect when I'm not carrying around a huge bag with all my gear, YMMV

When I had my D30, I did occasionally stick a 28-105 on, remove the grip,
and carry no flash...but that was maybe twice, and it was only for quickie
snapshots at the fair, etc. OTOH, my dad happily uses his 10D (He's 70)
with the built-in, and has managed some excellent shots with flash.
So... Laik bilong yu...

Another thing that becomes a deterent for me is that with many larger
lenses--especially if you use a hood (and I almost always do) is that the
lens/hood partially blocks the built-in. I understand now that the 20D and
the Digital Rebels have a much longer flash-lift, so it sits higher. This
may help to fix that problem... I'd just as soon not have it, though.
If I do end up with a 5D, maybe I'll leave my 10D with no grip and a
smallish lens. That way I could use it for it's small size on non-critical
stuff, and just let the teeny built-in do it's thing.
....Mark

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Brian Baird wrote:

In article , says...
I've seen this same sort of thing from samples of wide canon glass used
on a 1DsmkII.

Care to post samples?

Go look at the DPreview canon site. Seen plenty of 1DsII samples that look
just like the one canon posted and again, since you have NO intention on
purchasing this, why are you -defending- yet another camera you'll never
own?

Just in case you're too lazy to look for yourself, check out the corners
of
this image the canonits were all raving about. More mush.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9979424

Maybe using some old Zeiss distagon's in full manual mode works acceptably
well? If so, that in itself is sad.. The keep dumping new bodies out yet
can't be bother to make some good WA glass for them?

Though not perfect, that shot looks significantly better than the sample to
me.

I think this whole thing is just one of those wait-and-see things...

Mark² wrote:


If I do end up with a 5D, maybe I'll leave my 10D with no grip and a
smallish lens. That way I could use it for it's small size on
non-critical stuff, and just let the teeny built-in do it's thing.


That's why they are nice to have...
--

Stacey

Mark² wrote:


"Stacey" wrote in message


I don't think it's a "goof", I think it's just how it is with the present
wide canon lenses used on a FF digital camera body. You don't think
anyone at Canon noticed this?

It's possible that the people chosen to select "pretty images" didn't look
carefully enough.

Possible....


Take a look at other samples shown on dpreview's review of the 1DsM2 and
1Ds.

The ones I looked at, have ZERO detail in the corners. Also being
downsampled, it doesn't let you see what they really would look like? I've
seen other 1Ds samples using canon wides that look equally bad in the
corners when posted at 100%.

--

Stacey

In article , says...
Take a look at other samples shown on dpreview's review of the 1DsM2 and
1Ds.

The ones I looked at, have ZERO detail in the corners. Also being
downsampled, it doesn't let you see what they really would look like? I've
seen other 1Ds samples using canon wides that look equally bad in the
corners when posted at 100%.


Stacey, dpreview has full size samples. Obviously you've never looked
very closely.

Thanks for playing, no points this round.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Mark² wrote:


If I do end up with a 5D, maybe I'll leave my 10D with no grip and a
smallish lens. That way I could use it for it's small size on
non-critical stuff, and just let the teeny built-in do it's thing.


That's why they are nice to have...

Ya, I see that.

In the case of the 5D, though, I wouldn't want to give up that nice big
viewfinder.
Glad they're leaving it off the 5D as a result.
Anyway, shots I'd take with it would be for possible huge enlargement on my
large format printer, and any shot I'd want to enlarge that big would need
to be well-lit. Heck...many people feel that even large shoe-mounted flash
is inadequate lighting...

I guess it's all relative...

"Gisle Hannemyr" wrote in message
...
Brian Baird writes:
Stacey, dpreview has full size samples.

Can you please post a URL to one or two?
I've looked, but have yet to find a full size one with corner detail.

And if you (or some Nikon enthusiast) is aware of some full size
samples with corner detail on the web from the 12-24 DX Nikkor,
I'll appreciate the URLs of those as well.

Here's what to do (rather than post individual links)

For any full size images on dpreview, you need to look at the full reviews
on any camera.
In the last sections of each review (not just listings, but REVIEWS), you'll
find a section called "samples." Once you get to these and click on an
indivual image, there will be a small link underneath that image that says
something like "Click here for full image file" or something. If you have a
pop-up blocker, you'll need to by-pass it, since the full image opens in a
new window. once you have opened the full res image, just copy it to your
hard drive somewhere, and then open it in a viewer program (assuming you
would rather view it that way).

Hope that gets you there...

I could post a link, but this way you know how to find them whenever you
want (teach a man to fish, and all...).

-Mark