Agfapan 25

I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks

wrote:

I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks


The film to which you refer is only called Agfapan when it's spooled by
Minox for their 8x11 format; it includes a special low contrast
developer. Otherwise, it's called Copex microfilm, and is available in
16 mm unperforated, 35 mm camera perforated, and sheets, but not 120.
The easiest way to obtain it in less than literally thousands of feet in
a lot is as Gigabitfilm, which also includes an optimized developer that
gives. There is also Bluefire Police, which is Copex Rapid and gives
effectively the same result at EI 80-100. Neither, however, has the
extended red sensitivity of Tech Pan.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Donald is an highly reliable source, but this information is not correct.
Yes, Minopan 25 is Agfapan 25. But it is not a microfilm.

Although Agfa discontinued their Agfapan 25 film about two years ago, Minox
has a considerable stockpile and will probably continue offering Minopan 25
for years. It is processed in standard developers like Rodinal, D-76, etc.
It is not a substitute for Technical Pan since it is much grainier. Tech Pan
is, in essence, a microfilm, albiet a modified one, which is why it needs
special development.

Agfa will not re-commence making Agfapan 25. The best substitute for it is
Maco UP25, which should continue to be available for the forseeable future.

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca
wrote:

I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks


The film to which you refer is only called Agfapan when it's spooled by
Minox for their 8x11 format; it includes a special low contrast
developer. Otherwise, it's called Copex microfilm, and is available in
16 mm unperforated, 35 mm camera perforated, and sheets, but not 120.
The easiest way to obtain it in less than literally thousands of feet in
a lot is as Gigabitfilm, which also includes an optimized developer that
gives. There is also Bluefire Police, which is Copex Rapid and gives
effectively the same result at EI 80-100. Neither, however, has the
extended red sensitivity of Tech Pan.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

no-name wrote:

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.

wrote:
no-name wrote:

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.

Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian

Christian Kolinski wrote:

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

What sort of film holder would you use for the 105x148mm film? Would it be possible
to mate this up to a 2x3 Graflex for instance? Seems like it should work.

Christian Kolinski wrote:

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

What sort of film holder would you use for the 105x148mm film? Would it be possible
to mate this up to a 2x3 Graflex for instance? Seems like it should work.

wrote:
no-name wrote:

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.

Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian

wrote:
no-name wrote:

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca

Mr. Foy,
Any possibility we might see either of these microfilm products on a 120 spool?
Bear in mind that the existing stocks of Tech Pan are due to exhaust in the next
six months.

Well, I'm not Mr. Foy, nor do I sell any film, but FWIW:

Films like Gigabit or Bluefire are, to my knowlege, based on microfilm emulsions
like Agfa Copex Rapid, as mentioned by Mr. Foy.

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

Copex Rapid is Agfas "fast" microfilm, and is only available in
16 and 35mm. So the only possibility to get Copex Rapid (and therefor Gigabit
and other products based on it) in 120 would be to special order this emulsion
by Agfa, which would be $$$ and the minimum order is huge. This is most propably
the reason why Gigabit sheet-film is another emulsion than the 35mm perf.

Agfa offers a "medium" speed microfilm - Agfa Copex HDP - which is said to have
even finer grain as Copex Rapid, but is much slower.
Copex HDP however is sold in 105mmx61m rolls. So here it may be possible
to cut size 120 (which is about 61mm wide). And you would have some leftover to
cut 127 or 16mm or Minox size from.
I don't think this would be an option as the result would be much slower than
Gigabit or Bluefire, I would guess about ASA 20... or less.



For information on Agfa microfilm and available sizes:
http://www.agfa.com/mds/microfilm/co...ssortment.html


just my 0.02Euro
Christian

no-name wrote:
Donald is an highly reliable source, but this information is not correct.
Yes, Minopan 25 is Agfapan 25. But it is not a microfilm.

Although Agfa discontinued their Agfapan 25 film about two years ago, Minox
has a considerable stockpile and will probably continue offering Minopan 25
for years. It is processed in standard developers like Rodinal, D-76, etc.
It is not a substitute for Technical Pan since it is much grainier. Tech Pan
is, in essence, a microfilm, albiet a modified one, which is why it needs
special development.

Agfa will not re-commence making Agfapan 25. The best substitute for it is
Maco UP25, which should continue to be available for the forseeable future.

The other films mentioned (Copex and Bluefire Police) are microfilms which
must be processed in an extremely soft developer in order to achieve
pictorial contrast. Both are less grainy than TMax 100, which is currently
the low-grain champ of the standard film world, and both have more
conventional tonalities when correctly processed.

As Donald noted, 35mm Gigabit is Copex Rapid Pan AHU. Gigabit in sheet film
sizes is a different Agfa microfilm.

Bluefire Police is often said to be Copex Rapid Pan AHU, but it is not. When
given identical exposure in a sensitometer, and processed together in
Bluefire HR developer, they develop quite differently. In twelve minutes of
continuous agitation, Copex develops to gamma 0.33, while Bluefire Police
develops to gamma 0.48. Copex has a more abrupt shoulder, Bluefire Police a
more abrupt toe. Their speeds are about the same, but Bluefire Police is a
little faster. The emulsion colors of the two films are noticeably
different. I have tried to find out what Bluefire Police is, but I have only
been told is an Agfa microfilm not available outside Europe. Nothing more
specific.

David Foy
http://www.bluefire.ca
wrote:


I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks



The film to which you refer is only called Agfapan when it's spooled by
Minox for their 8x11 format; it includes a special low contrast
developer. Otherwise, it's called Copex microfilm, and is available in
16 mm unperforated, 35 mm camera perforated, and sheets, but not 120.
The easiest way to obtain it in less than literally thousands of feet in
a lot is as Gigabitfilm, which also includes an optimized developer that
gives. There is also Bluefire Police, which is Copex Rapid and gives
effectively the same result at EI 80-100. Neither, however, has the
extended red sensitivity of Tech Pan.


Bluefire Police is actually made in Canada by Adox Fotowerke Inc, based
in Calgary Alberta, try www.adox.net for details.

W