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#31
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
In article , PeterN
wrote: I haven't been following this thread, but Tim Grey just wrote on the subject of hummingbirds and VR: http://asktimgrey.com/ It's the August 4 "Stabilizing with Fast Shutter" issue in case a later date opens at that link. use the actual link rather than inconvenience the user. http://asktimgrey.com/2016/08/04/stabilization-with-fast-shutter/ What is the virtue of the longer URL? it's a direct link to the article. They both get to the same place. no they don't. And that comment has what to do with VR and high shutter speeds. read the linked article, which doesn't actually say much. |
#32
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. -- PeterN |
#33
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 2016-08-05 14:52:31 +0000, PeterN said:
On 8/4/2016 11:43 AM, Savageduck wrote: On 2016-08-04 14:53:08 +0000, PeterN said: On 8/3/2016 4:56 PM, RichA wrote: I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00. If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your personal experience? ...or is that some sort of unverified speculation? I first heard that suggestion at a wildlife shooting lecture. The theory is that when shooting at speeds above 1/2000 sec, you may not need VR. VR does slightly slow down the frame rate. Since this made sense to me I did not research the issue, other than to ask a Nikon professional, and he confirmed the concept. So I guess you can call that concept based on anecdotal evidence, until I see documentation. VR/OS was on for this shot. https://db.tt/FChe5Y5t Several Several what? -- Regards, Savageduck |
#34
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 2016-08-05 15:15:44 +0000, nospam said:
In article , PeterN wrote: I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00. If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your personal experience? ...or is that some sort of unverified speculation? I first heard that suggestion at a wildlife shooting lecture. The theory is that when shooting at speeds above 1/2000 sec, you may not need VR. that part is true. VR does slightly slow down the frame rate. that part is not. Since this made sense to me I did not research the issue, other than to ask a Nikon professional, and he confirmed the concept. he's wrong. the frame rate is independent of vr. The frame rate is going to be dependant on a whole bunch of factors starting with AF mode, SF or CF. Then release priority has to be considered when shooting burst + CF, along with the appropriate AF tracking mode. If "Release" is selected then you could easily end up with a series/burst of shots all OoF. If you Select "Release + Focus" the priority remains on shutter relase with a slight edge to focus, so with that you might get a few shots in focus. If you select "Focus" and you have the appropriate AF tracking enabled, you are going to to have most of your captured images in focus. However, the frame rate is going to suffer. When it comes to VR/OS inhibiting AF lock, or accurate AF the charateristics and design qualities of any particular lens will come into play. VR/OS of lenses designed 10 years ago, and theories built around those designs are not entirely applicable to many more recent implementations of VR/OS. The one example I can present is the frustratingly slow and hunting AF in the original Nikkor 80-400mm long with its now primitive VR compared to VR/OS lenses of just a few years later. So I guess you can call that concept based on anecdotal evidence, until I see documentation. read the documentation on how vr works. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#35
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
In article 2016080509052325226-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote: I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00. If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your personal experience? ...or is that some sort of unverified speculation? I first heard that suggestion at a wildlife shooting lecture. The theory is that when shooting at speeds above 1/2000 sec, you may not need VR. that part is true. VR does slightly slow down the frame rate. that part is not. Since this made sense to me I did not research the issue, other than to ask a Nikon professional, and he confirmed the concept. he's wrong. the frame rate is independent of vr. The frame rate is going to be dependant on a whole bunch of factors starting with AF mode, SF or CF. Then release priority has to be considered when shooting burst + CF, along with the appropriate AF tracking mode. release versus focus priority obviously will affect frame rate. vr will not. |
#36
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 2016-08-05 15:18:11 +0000, PeterN said:
On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. There is a time and place to use each of the release priority options, and those are going to be based on whether or not you are shooting AF-S, or AF-C, and the tracking method you have selected. The speed at which you attain an AF lock primarily depends on the camera handling technique you have developed for particular shooting scenarios rather than issues related to VR/OS. With questionable handling technique you might find that your AF lock and OoF capture rate is far higher than you would like it to be. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#37
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 2016-08-05 16:46:20 +0000, Savageduck said:
On 2016-08-05 15:18:11 +0000, PeterN said: On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. There is a time and place to use each of the release priority options, and those are going to be based on whether or not you are shooting AF-S, or AF-C, and the tracking method you have selected. The speed at which you attain an AF lock primarily depends on the camera handling technique you have developed for particular shooting scenarios rather than issues related to VR/OS. With questionable handling technique you might find that your AF lock and OoF capture rate is far higher than you would like it to be. I guess I should have said: "You might find that your AF failure to lock and OoF capture rate is far higher than you would like it to be." -- Regards, Savageduck |
#38
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:18:11 -0400, PeterN
wrote: On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. For most purposes I'm a convert to 'back button' focussing, although I must admit I have never tried it on birds. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#39
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 8/5/2016 12:46 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-08-05 15:18:11 +0000, PeterN said: On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. There is a time and place to use each of the release priority options, and those are going to be based on whether or not you are shooting AF-S, or AF-C, and the tracking method you have selected. The speed at which you attain an AF lock primarily depends on the camera handling technique you have developed for particular shooting scenarios rather than issues related to VR/OS. With questionable handling technique you might find that your AF lock and OoF capture rate is far higher than you would like it to be. For purposes of this discussion i am only talking about AF-C. Logic would say that when i use focus , than release the actual frame rate would be a tad slower, but there would be fewer images OOF. I am certainly wiling to be convinced otherwise. However, that has nothing to do with my original statement VR. Sticking to the topic, I see little use for VR when doing high shutter rate shooting. Nothing said here convinces me otherwise. -- PeterN |
#40
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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.
On 2016-08-05 23:24:08 +0000, Eric Stevens said:
On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:18:11 -0400, PeterN wrote: On 8/4/2016 7:33 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 18:06:49 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I find I get better focus tracking without VR. vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually *helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving all over the place. Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm The autofocus is processed in the camera: http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement. so what? that has nothing to do with focus speed. it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any further delays. the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a delay there too. I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to focus priority. I use focus priority, However, There seems to be some thought that release priority may under certain circumstances result in better images. I am still in the process of learning. For most purposes I'm a convert to 'back button' focussing, although I must admit I have never tried it on birds. "back button" is useful for many subjects, but doesn't do you much good when shooting a burst while using AF tracking and AF-C for moving subjects such as those pesky birds in flight. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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