D300 Camera Out performing the Metering System in both A and S Modes

Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture. I tried this in S Shutter Priority mode and the meter
while still blinking actually showed me how far underexposed I was I
started to adjust until it hit "0" and took the shot. I tried
changing the aperture and it took the pictured but it was all out of
focus since the shutter was open for a very long time.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?

Am I missing something here, I am new at this ?

Thanks to all of you masters.

"LuvLatins" wrote:
Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

The "Lo" proabably means "Too sLOw a shutter speed to get a sharp picture".
That is, it's telling you that you shouldn't try to take that picture
without a tripod or other support.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

You have either a seriously dark sofa or a really dim living roomg.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture.

No. The camera thinks you're not smart enough to use a tripod at slow
shutter speeds.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?

No. I think your camera is just doing you unnecessary favors. Try reading
the finest of the fine print in the manual.

FWIW, there are three basic metering techniques, all of which you can use
with the D300.

1. Incident metering. You measure the light hitting the subject. This gives
the technically correct exposure.
2. In-camera average, center weighted, and matrix/evaluative metering. These
guess at the exposure and sometimes get it right. Matrix metering should be
the best of the three.
3. Spot metering. You measure the intensity of small areas in the scene,
decide what zone to place them at, and set the exposure accordingly. This
gives someone who knows what they're doing artistic control over exposure.

If you get an 18% gray card, you can do incident metering with the camera.
If you read the book described at the site below, you'll learn why spot
metering is the right idea.

http://www.spotmetering.com/

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:16:33 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
wrote:


"LuvLatins" wrote:
Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

The "Lo" proabably means "Too sLOw a shutter speed to get a sharp picture".
That is, it's telling you that you shouldn't try to take that picture
without a tripod or other support.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

You have either a seriously dark sofa or a really dim living roomg.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture.

No. The camera thinks you're not smart enough to use a tripod at slow
shutter speeds.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?

No. I think your camera is just doing you unnecessary favors. Try reading
the finest of the fine print in the manual.

FWIW, there are three basic metering techniques, all of which you can use
with the D300.

1. Incident metering. You measure the light hitting the subject. This gives
the technically correct exposure.
2. In-camera average, center weighted, and matrix/evaluative metering. These
guess at the exposure and sometimes get it right. Matrix metering should be
the best of the three.
3. Spot metering. You measure the intensity of small areas in the scene,
decide what zone to place them at, and set the exposure accordingly. This
gives someone who knows what they're doing artistic control over exposure.

If you get an 18% gray card, you can do incident metering with the camera.
If you read the book described at the site below, you'll learn why spot
metering is the right idea.

http://www.spotmetering.com/

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Thanks David. Yes my living room is deliberatly dark, I love to shoot
in low light environments and that is one of the biggest reasons I
upgraded to the D300. But still I just cant figure this out.

If I turn on the light next to the sofa it gets a reading, but again
with the light off, the meter indicates "Lo" and it blinks which in
the manual on page 390 says it means " Subject too dark; photo
will be underexposed" But trust me the picute is not underexposed. I
have attached it here so you can see for yourself. Number 13 was at
F3.5 Shutter Speed 1/13 and ISO HI-1. Number 14 was F3.5 Shutter
Speed 1/1.6 at ISO 800. Both of the pictures look good not
underexposed.

I understand your description of the three metering types but I set
the camera to all three and there was no change to the METER. It just
blinks and says "Lo" The only way to get the meter to give a reading
and stop blinking is to increase the light in the room. This is why I
think that the light meter in the camera is either not senative
enough. The meter should not blink it should give me the readings
above, unless these pictures I have attached are actually underexposed
and I just cant tell. What do you think of them ?

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:16:33 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
wrote:


"LuvLatins" wrote:
Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

The "Lo" proabably means "Too sLOw a shutter speed to get a sharp picture".
That is, it's telling you that you shouldn't try to take that picture
without a tripod or other support.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

You have either a seriously dark sofa or a really dim living roomg.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture.

No. The camera thinks you're not smart enough to use a tripod at slow
shutter speeds.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?

No. I think your camera is just doing you unnecessary favors. Try reading
the finest of the fine print in the manual.

FWIW, there are three basic metering techniques, all of which you can use
with the D300.

1. Incident metering. You measure the light hitting the subject. This gives
the technically correct exposure.
2. In-camera average, center weighted, and matrix/evaluative metering. These
guess at the exposure and sometimes get it right. Matrix metering should be
the best of the three.
3. Spot metering. You measure the intensity of small areas in the scene,
decide what zone to place them at, and set the exposure accordingly. This
gives someone who knows what they're doing artistic control over exposure.

If you get an 18% gray card, you can do incident metering with the camera.
If you read the book described at the site below, you'll learn why spot
metering is the right idea.

http://www.spotmetering.com/

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Thanks David. Yes my living room is deliberately dark, I love to
shoot in low light environments and that is one of the biggest reasons
I upgraded to the D300. But still I just cant figure this out.

If I turn on the light next to the sofa it gets a reading, but again
with the light off, the meter indicates "Lo" and it blinks which in
the manual on page 390 says it means " Subject too dark; photo
will be underexposed" But trust me the picture does not look
underexposed. They are both located he

http://www.nycsaintmusic.com/Public/Nikon/

http://www.nycsaintmusic.com/Public/Nikon/013.JPG

http://www.nycsaintmusic.com/Public/Nikon/014.JPG

I guess if they are even a tad bit below being perfectly exposed the
meter blinks and says "Lo" I just don't get it. If you look at the
histogram it is left but not clipped horribly so why cant the meter
give me the readings that follow or even better the correct setting to
get a properly exposed picture.

Number 13 was at F3.5 Shutter Speed 1/13 and ISO HI-1. Number 14 was
F3.5 Shutter Speed 1/1.6 at ISO 800. Both of the pictures look good
not underexposed.

I understand your description of the three metering types but I set
the camera to all three and there was no change to the METER. It just
blinks and says "Lo" The only way to get the meter to give a reading
and stop blinking is to increase the light in the room. This is why I
think that the light meter in the camera is possibly not sensative
enough. The meter should not blink it should give me the readings
above, unless these pictures I have attached are actually underexposed
and I just cant tell. What do you think of them ?

"LuvLatins" wrote:

I understand your description of the three metering types but I set
the camera to all three and there was no change to the METER. It just
blinks and says "Lo"

I don't own a D300, so I'm only running on common sense here. The D300 is
designed to kick the butt of the camera I own on features, so it's
inconceivable that the meter is grossly inferior.

The only way to get the meter to give a reading
and stop blinking is to increase the light in the room.

Again, it sounds as though this "lo" bit is a feature (that should be able
to be turned off). Checking the specs, (as expectedg) the D300 meters down
to 0 EV, whereas the 5D only meters down to 1.0 EV, so your meter is a whole
stop more sensitive than mine (which will blithly give me a 30 second
exposure (ISO 50, f/22)).

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:51:34 -0500, LuvLatins wrote:

Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture. I tried this in S Shutter Priority mode and the meter
while still blinking actually showed me how far underexposed I was I
started to adjust until it hit "0" and took the shot. I tried
changing the aperture and it took the pictured but it was all out of
focus since the shutter was open for a very long time.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?



No, it's why the rest of us have gotten smarter and given up on dim images from
optical viewfinders and hoping that the camera will be able to set an exposure
that's anywhere near accurate. Doing away with light meters that depend on that
dim image that hardly ever gets it right. Not to mention the hit and miss
averaging because the light-meter system is not metering on the full-frame that
will be recorded. Nor will it compensate properly for all focal lengths
different than a 50-55mm standard for which it was optimized and designed. And
don't have any backlight behind you or that too will upset the exposure reading
as any stray light enters the viewfinder eyepiece.

Instead we buy high-quality P&S cameras these days. Where the light level is
auto-amplified and relayed to an EVF/LCD system directly from the same sensor
that is going to take the image. This way the camera can set the proper focus
and exposure in light levels too low to even be seen with the naked eye. While
it also won't be thrown off by inaccurate partial framing from some ancient and
inefficient optical pentaprism design that gives you a guess-image of what your
actual image is going to look like.

You'll figure it out one day, why so many are ditching that last-century SLR,
limited capability, optical viewfinder, and slow-mechanical shutter design. The
smart ones are moving on to better things.

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

"LuvLatins" wrote:
Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

The "Lo" proabably means "Too sLOw a shutter speed to get a sharp
picture". That is, it's telling you that you shouldn't try to take that
picture without a tripod or other support.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

You have either a seriously dark sofa or a really dim living roomg.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture.

No. The camera thinks you're not smart enough to use a tripod at slow
shutter speeds.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?

No. I think your camera is just doing you unnecessary favors. Try reading
the finest of the fine print in the manual.

FWIW, there are three basic metering techniques, all of which you can use
with the D300.

1. Incident metering. You measure the light hitting the subject. This
gives the technically correct exposure.
2. In-camera average, center weighted, and matrix/evaluative metering.
These guess at the exposure and sometimes get it right. Matrix metering
should be the best of the three.
3. Spot metering. You measure the intensity of small areas in the scene,
decide what zone to place them at, and set the exposure accordingly. This
gives someone who knows what they're doing artistic control over exposure.

If you get an 18% gray card, you can do incident metering with the camera.
If you read the book described at the site below, you'll learn why spot
metering is the right idea.

Sometimes I agree with you, but here it seems you're losing it.
My D300 has no such thing as "incident" metering. What a ridiculous thing to
say.
If you don't have a D300, what the heck are you talking about then? I don't
have a Hasselblad, but I don't talk about it as if aI know it.

The matrix metering of the D300 is fabulous; probably better then most other
camera's.
Spot metering is ONLY for certain circumstances, but absolutely not for ALL.
This is just crap. Seems like you don't even have any camera at all, or
you'd know this.
If you make a picture of an outdoor landscape and you use spotmetering, you
get a crappy picture. Dark at the edges and not at all well exposed. After
all, the camera only measures the very centre of light; the rest doesn't
matter.
The pictures on the SCREAMING site below, all are of subjects that CAN be
used with spotmetering, but none is a landscape picture.
If you don't know what you are talking about, please don't give false info
to a starter.
"incident metering" ROFLOL!
How about "accident metering" ?


http://www.spotmetering.com/

Nice BS.

--
Sosumi

ArgentinaMan wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:51:34 -0500, LuvLatins wrote:

Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

No, it's why the rest of us have gotten smarter and given up on dim images from
optical viewfinders and hoping that the camera will be able to set an exposure
that's anywhere near accurate.

Instead we buy high-quality P&S cameras these days.

There's your solution! Just use Live View on the D300.

"ArgentinaMan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:51:34 -0500, LuvLatins
wrote:

Well I have had my D300 for a day now and I am really getting the hang
of it. One question however for the experts. I am using an 18-200 mm
lens and with the ISO set to 200 and the Camera in "A" (Aperture
Priority Mode) I pointed the Camera at my leather sofa (away from the
light source) and with the F stop set at 3.5 (The shutter read "Lo"
and the analog meter in the view finder was blinking) OK I understand
not enough light for the meter to give me a reading.

I took the picture anyway and it looked good and the histogram was a
little left but acceptable. Next I dialed the ISO to 3200 and then
again to HI-1 and all three of the pictures look OK. Yes the
histogram is to the left but actually the shadows dont look clipped.
Then in Playback I took a look for the shutter speeds and as you would
expect it read, 2, 1/10, 1/20 respectively. So as the ISO when up,
the camera did increase the shutter speed as you would expect.

My conclusion is that the meter could not give me a reading and did
not like the lighting conditions but the camera did its job and took
the picture. I tried this in S Shutter Priority mode and the meter
while still blinking actually showed me how far underexposed I was I
started to adjust until it hit "0" and took the shot. I tried
changing the aperture and it took the pictured but it was all out of
focus since the shutter was open for a very long time.

Is this why people buy separate and really expensive seperate light
meters ? Again it appears to me that the Camera and the Lens can
outperform the meter easily ?



No, it's why the rest of us have gotten smarter and given up on dim images
from
optical viewfinders and hoping that the camera will be able to set an
exposure
that's anywhere near accurate. Doing away with light meters that depend on
that
dim image that hardly ever gets it right. Not to mention the hit and miss
averaging because the light-meter system is not metering on the full-frame
that
will be recorded. Nor will it compensate properly for all focal lengths
different than a 50-55mm standard for which it was optimized and designed.
And
don't have any backlight behind you or that too will upset the exposure
reading
as any stray light enters the viewfinder eyepiece.

Instead we buy high-quality P&S cameras these days. Where the light level
is
auto-amplified and relayed to an EVF/LCD system directly from the same
sensor
that is going to take the image. This way the camera can set the proper
focus
and exposure in light levels too low to even be seen with the naked eye.
While
it also won't be thrown off by inaccurate partial framing from some
ancient and
inefficient optical pentaprism design that gives you a guess-image of what
your
actual image is going to look like.

You'll figure it out one day, why so many are ditching that last-century
SLR,
limited capability, optical viewfinder, and slow-mechanical shutter
design. The
smart ones are moving on to better things.


Would you be kind enough to go away and stop butting into threads which have
nothing to do with Point and Shoot Cameras.

We all know already that you don't like DSLRs, Ok.

Roy G

"Sosumi" wrote:
"David J. Littleboy" wrote:

If you get an 18% gray card, you can do incident metering with the
camera.
If you read the book described at the site below, you'll learn why spot
metering is the right idea.

Sometimes I agree with you, but here it seems you're losing it.
My D300 has no such thing as "incident" metering. What a ridiculous thing
to say.

Do you have trouble reading? I said "you can do incident metering". Select
the spot meter, point it at the 18% gray card, and get an incident reading.

Very simple.

If you don't have a D300, what the heck are you talking about then? I
don't have a Hasselblad, but I don't talk about it as if aI know it.

I have a dSLR with a spot meter, and I know how to use it as an incident
meter if I need too.

If you make a picture of an outdoor landscape and you use spotmetering,
you get a crappy picture. Dark at the edges and not at all well exposed.

ROFL. Tell that to Ansel Adams.

Either you are losing it, or our pet troll is spoofing your headers.

After all, the camera only measures the very centre of light; the rest
doesn't matter.

That's not how to use a spot meter...

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan