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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 22nd 07, 07:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Cats
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Posts: 19
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

On May 21, 10:25 pm, ray wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2007 12:56:58 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-05-20 22:47:10 -0700, said:


This question perhaps relates to my other question about long term
camera tests. If someone gives you money to buy a camera, say for
$800, and you are just an average camera user (not a pro), no action
shots, just want to get good quality, sharp pictures, what would you
do?
- buy a regular $200 cameras, and use it for a year (or two) and then
keep buying a new one after 3000-5000 shots. You can get up to 4 brand
new cameras @ $200 a piece.
- or buy a more expensive camera to meet the budget, and hope and pray
that it will last for years to come and many thousand pictures.


Cameras go obsolete after 18 months.


Yeah - so? That does not mean they stop working. If they still fullfill
your needs, what's the problem?

snip

Quite. I have a Canon Powershot A70, 3.2 megapixels, and I still use
it. Apart from a low pixel count, it's a great camera - good lens
(possibly the most important component), great viewfinder, easy to use
and the results are good. A more up-to-date camera isn't necesarily
better, as I found out when I brought a Fuji S5600.

  #12  
Old May 22nd 07, 09:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Geoff Berrow
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Posts: 49
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

Message-ID: Gsu4i.2124$ky6.2081@trnddc02 from Wayne contained the
following:

It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do
everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite
happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4
megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10
inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more,
you should buy more.


I've enlarged 6.1 megapixels very successfully to 20 x 16.(Nikon D70)
In fact, the resolution of the lens becomes apparent before pixels are
noticeable so if you need more pixels, you also need better lenses

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/
  #13  
Old May 22nd 07, 11:20 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
harrogate3[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera


"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
Message-ID: Gsu4i.2124$ky6.2081@trnddc02 from Wayne contained the
following:

It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still

should do
everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still

quite
happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3

or 4
megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print

8x10
inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you

need more,
you should buy more.


I've enlarged 6.1 megapixels very successfully to 20 x 16.(Nikon

D70)
In fact, the resolution of the lens becomes apparent before pixels

are
noticeable so if you need more pixels, you also need better lenses

--



....and it has to be said that the 18-70mm zoom provided as standard
with the D70 is one of the best lenses on the market. Says an awful
lot about digital quality.


--
Woody (a very satisfied D70s owner)

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #14  
Old May 22nd 07, 11:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
harrogate3[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera


"Cats" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 21, 10:25 pm, ray wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2007 12:56:58 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-05-20 22:47:10 -0700, said:


This question perhaps relates to my other question about long

term
camera tests. If someone gives you money to buy a camera, say

for
$800, and you are just an average camera user (not a pro), no

action
shots, just want to get good quality, sharp pictures, what

would you
do?
- buy a regular $200 cameras, and use it for a year (or two)

and then
keep buying a new one after 3000-5000 shots. You can get up to

4 brand
new cameras @ $200 a piece.
- or buy a more expensive camera to meet the budget, and hope

and pray
that it will last for years to come and many thousand pictures.


Cameras go obsolete after 18 months.


Yeah - so? That does not mean they stop working. If they still

fullfill
your needs, what's the problem?

snip

Quite. I have a Canon Powershot A70, 3.2 megapixels, and I still

use
it. Apart from a low pixel count, it's a great camera - good lens
(possibly the most important component), great viewfinder, easy to

use
and the results are good. A more up-to-date camera isn't necesarily
better, as I found out when I brought a Fuji S5600.



3Mp on a compact at full frame is perfectly good for enlargement to A4
(297x210mm for our friends over the pond,) 5Mp in a compact is as much
as most people need as above that sensor noise (mainly thermal) starts
to become an issue.

The larger pixels and cell on a DSLR mean that a 2Mp DSLR like the
early Nikons will usually knock spots off any picture taken on a
compact under about 5Mp. Get a 6Mp DSLR and you're laughing.


You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it always
brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement years
ago by Uncle Bill Gates:-
"640K of memory is enough for anyone."

Says it all really....................


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #15  
Old May 22nd 07, 12:34 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
dennis@home
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Posts: 330
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera


"harrogate3" wrote in message
...

You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it always
brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement years
ago by Uncle Bill Gates:-
"640K of memory is enough for anyone."

Says it all really....................


It was true at the time.
Inefficient languages had yet to be developed.

The same can't be said for digital cameras where there is an existing
technology that does the job.
However many DSLRs and a few P&S cameras will do images as good as most 35mm
film cameras these days.

I treat them like computers myself.. just buy last years model when they are
selling them cheap.
The new ones tend not to have many real improvements.
The current fashion for IS is making all the older ones very cheap at the
moment and we have done without IS for the last 100 years.


  #16  
Old May 22nd 07, 01:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Scott W
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Posts: 2,131
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote:
Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms
are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual
user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a
DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow.
That is unless you want to impress your neighbors.

I don't believe this is true at all.


It may not be true for all, but it is obviously true for most.

We don't choose between a low end and a high end camera for any of the
reasons that have been stated.

It is certainly not because the low end "picture lacks sharpness and
contrast, has poor color, and is generally disappointing." Obviously
false, the $200 point&shoots are pretty amazing. Perhaps not so
versatile in A mode, but capable. If all we will ever use is the Auto A
mode, then it is versatile enough for us.

It is not because of life expectency before it wears out. Shouldnt be a
problem, especially not for a less serious photographer using it less.

It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do
everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite
happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4
megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10
inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more,
you should buy more.

The reason to choose higher price is to get more features and options,
presumably because we expect to use them. It is of course wasted if you
wont use them, at least now and then. Interchangeable lens is the biggest
option, which requires a DSLR. Many see this as essential, but most
others dont even know what it is. Most have no concept of photography
except "this button turns it on, and this button is the shutter". And it
works for them. But if you want and need features, then you buy
features.

Even in DSLR, there is low end and high end. Differences are still about
features. What will the camera do? More experienced photographers will
use more of those options, and less experienced photographers will not.
The camera features will not do it for you. Those people that instead
always leave it in A Auto mode dont need much in features.

I have to take issue with this, the advantage of a higher end DSLR is
not mainly about features but performance, works in lower light,
faster auto-focus, faster shot to shot time, better looking photos
etc. In fact it seems to be the small point and shoot cameras that
are loaded with features.

If all someone wants is a small point and shoot that is fine, but if
someone is thinking about a DSLR they should be aware that there is
much more to a DSLR then just more features.

Scott




  #17  
Old May 22nd 07, 02:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
ASAAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,057
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:25:59 GMT, harrogate3 wrote:

3Mp on a compact at full frame is perfectly good for enlargement to A4
(297x210mm for our friends over the pond,) 5Mp in a compact is as much
as most people need as above that sensor noise (mainly thermal) starts
to become an issue.


Your friends across the pond (not all) may be more familiar with
A4 than metric measurements. They realize that A4 is just
slightly taller and narrower than the standard paper size used for
eons in typewriters and printers, i.e., 8½" x 11", which is just a
bit larger than the common 8"x10" photo paper size. As to the rest,
I completely agree. With a bunch of cameras that have sensors
ranging from 3mp to 8mp, all are capable of providing sufficient
resolution for the great majority of my photos, and the one I use is
usually determined by convenience, often the 4mp Fuji P&S. The 3mp
Canon Powershot is just too limited in features (nothing but full
Auto mode, and poor battery life).


The larger pixels and cell on a DSLR mean that a 2Mp DSLR like the
early Nikons will usually knock spots off any picture taken on a
compact under about 5Mp. Get a 6Mp DSLR and you're laughing.


g (6mp D50!)

  #18  
Old May 22nd 07, 04:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Scott W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,131
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote:
Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms
are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual
user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a
DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow.
That is unless you want to impress your neighbors.

I don't believe this is true at all.


It may not be true for all, but it is obviously true for most.

We don't choose between a low end and a high end camera for any of the
reasons that have been stated.

It is certainly not because the low end "picture lacks sharpness and
contrast, has poor color, and is generally disappointing." Obviously
false, the $200 point&shoots are pretty amazing. Perhaps not so
versatile in A mode, but capable. If all we will ever use is the Auto A
mode, then it is versatile enough for us.

It is not because of life expectency before it wears out. Shouldnt be a
problem, especially not for a less serious photographer using it less.

It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do
everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite
happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4
megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10
inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more,
you should buy more.

The reason to choose higher price is to get more features and options,
presumably because we expect to use them. It is of course wasted if you
wont use them, at least now and then. Interchangeable lens is the biggest
option, which requires a DSLR. Many see this as essential, but most
others dont even know what it is. Most have no concept of photography
except "this button turns it on, and this button is the shutter". And it
works for them. But if you want and need features, then you buy
features.

Even in DSLR, there is low end and high end. Differences are still about
features. What will the camera do? More experienced photographers will
use more of those options, and less experienced photographers will not.
The camera features will not do it for you. Those people that instead
always leave it in A Auto mode dont need much in features.

I have to take issue with this, the advantage of a higher end DSLR is
not mainly about features but performance, works in lower light,
faster auto-focus, faster shot to shot time, better looking photos
etc. In fact it seems to be the small point and shoot cameras that
are loaded with features.

If all someone wants is a small point and shoot that is fine, but if
someone is thinking about a DSLR they should be aware that there is
much more to a DSLR then just more features.

Scott




  #19  
Old May 22nd 07, 05:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Allen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 368
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera

Scott W wrote:
On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote:
Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms
are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual
user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a
DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow.
That is unless you want to impress your neighbors.
I don't believe this is true at all.


Nobody seems to have responded with the reason many of us don't buy
DSLRs: we buy what we can afford. I would love to have a DSLR with a
collection of lenses and accessories, but I get along with my S3 IS.
When medical expenses go down, gasoline goes down etc I will get a DSLR.
But in the meantime I enjoy what I have.
Allen
  #20  
Old May 22nd 07, 07:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
harrogate3[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"harrogate3" wrote in message
...

You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it

always
brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement

years
ago by Uncle Bill Gates:-
"640K of memory is enough for anyone."

Says it all really....................


It was true at the time.
Inefficient languages had yet to be developed.

The same can't be said for digital cameras where there is an

existing
technology that does the job.
However many DSLRs and a few P&S cameras will do images as good as

most 35mm
film cameras these days.

I treat them like computers myself.. just buy last years model when

they are
selling them cheap.
The new ones tend not to have many real improvements.
The current fashion for IS is making all the older ones very cheap

at the
moment and we have done without IS for the last 100 years.




Ah but the difference is automation.

In our film camera days - especially SLRs - we all knew the
reciprocity rule: never use a long lens at less that the equivalent in
focal length, i,e, a 200mm lens had to be used at 1/200th second or
faster to avoid shake. The modern digicam is made for Mr/Ms/Mrs
average who not only know nothing about shutter speed and aperture,
few know more than switching the beast on and off and pressing the
shutter button. To them IS is a surety of a good picture every time
irrespective of lighting conditions - what is more it also saves the
manufacturer's name making the user more likely to buy the same make
again.

The trouble is nine times out of ten the camera knows better than the
user in terms of exposure and (usually) focus - it frightens me to
think of the number of shots I have lost when I have overridden the
machine!


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


 




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