Nikon announces new flagship **FILM** SLR – the F6!

Bandicoot wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
[Snip]

I always think of the 1/500 of leaf shutters as a standard that
35mm generally falls short of. 1/250 .. 1/300 is damned good of
course.

Another reason why I got a Yashica Electro GT (actually two, but who's
counting). While I am stuck to one fixed lens, it is one way to get that
1/500 in 35 mm. One problem is that the camera is aperture priority, so it
is tough to tell if the shutter is operating at 1/500, or slightly slower.
Medium format is much better for this stuff.


You could look into the Konica S3 Auto. That is shutter priority auto (no
manual override, unfortunately) with a _fantastic_ 38mm f1.7 lens and, of
course, sync. up to 1/500. It also has a nice fill flash system that, in
effect, tells you in the VF how much fill relative to ambient you are
giving.

I have looked at a few, though the prices are not as nice as the Yashica GT.
The use of shutter priority is also a little limited in most situations, which
might make it too specialized as a 35 mm camera body. With medium format, and
full manual control, the results are very accurate and predictable.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com Updated!

"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned, but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned, but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

"Stephen H. Westin" wrote in message
...
"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust
that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned,
but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I
would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen
in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they
permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

Ah....Well, if there are sensor cleaning swabs and fluid, then it is
possible to get to the sensor....Probably by holding the shutter open, and
reaching through the front of the camera.....I would hate to have a camera
that was "uncleanable", under the assumption that it would never get
dirty.....I clean my camera with very soft artists brushes and a rubber
bulb-type air blower.....I try to never use any liquids inside the
camera......For one thing, I have never seen a swab that didn't leave little
pieces of itself behind when it got wet.......

"Stephen H. Westin" wrote in message
...
"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust
that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned,
but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I
would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen
in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they
permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

Ah....Well, if there are sensor cleaning swabs and fluid, then it is
possible to get to the sensor....Probably by holding the shutter open, and
reaching through the front of the camera.....I would hate to have a camera
that was "uncleanable", under the assumption that it would never get
dirty.....I clean my camera with very soft artists brushes and a rubber
bulb-type air blower.....I try to never use any liquids inside the
camera......For one thing, I have never seen a swab that didn't leave little
pieces of itself behind when it got wet.......

"Stephen H. Westin" wrote in message
...
"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust
that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned,
but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I
would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen
in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they
permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

Ah....Well, if there are sensor cleaning swabs and fluid, then it is
possible to get to the sensor....Probably by holding the shutter open, and
reaching through the front of the camera.....I would hate to have a camera
that was "uncleanable", under the assumption that it would never get
dirty.....I clean my camera with very soft artists brushes and a rubber
bulb-type air blower.....I try to never use any liquids inside the
camera......For one thing, I have never seen a swab that didn't leave little
pieces of itself behind when it got wet.......

"William Graham" writes:

"Stephen H. Westin" wrote in message
...
"William Graham" writes:

snip

Yes....I understand that dust is a big problem. But the sensor is still
protected by a shutter. I guess that with film, the little bit of dust
that
gets behind the shutter is moved out whenever a new frame is positioned,
but
with the digital sensor, it stays in place in the camera, so it
accumulates....there must be some way of blowing it out, however.....I
would
think they would make the sensor removable for cleaning, like the screen
in
my F5 finder. Are the sensors on a removable chip, or are they
permanently
wired in place?

No. The alignment of the chip is critical to image sharpness, and
making it removable would compromise this. Besides, opening the camera
that far is likely to introduce dust, as well.

And if permanently wired in place, how does one clean the
back of the shutter blades?

It doesn't seem to be a problem, perhaps because of their motion. It
also seems that certain sensors are far more prone to dust
contamination; perhaps they have more of a surface charge when
operating. So dust may actually be attracted to the sensor. It's also
not advised to use pressurized gas to blow dust out; there are special
sensor-cleaning swabs and fluid for the purpose.

Ah....Well, if there are sensor cleaning swabs and fluid, then it is
possible to get to the sensor....Probably by holding the shutter open, and
reaching through the front of the camera...

Yup, there is usually a "sensor clean" feature in a menu somewhere.
There is also usually a provision to prevent the battery going dead
and closing the shutter with the swab stuck in there, which is a Bad
Thing.

...I would hate to have a camera
that was "uncleanable", under the assumption that it would never get
dirty.....I clean my camera with very soft artists brushes and a rubber
bulb-type air blower.....I try to never use any liquids inside the
camera......For one thing, I have never seen a swab that didn't leave little
pieces of itself behind when it got wet.......

Well, these are very fancy swabs: http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm
shows them at $4 per. By all accounts, they can work very well.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Bandicoot wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
[Snip]

I always think of the 1/500 of leaf shutters as a standard that
35mm generally falls short of. 1/250 .. 1/300 is damned good of
course.

Another reason why I got a Yashica Electro GT (actually two, but
who's counting). While I am stuck to one fixed lens, it is one way to
get that 1/500 in 35 mm. One problem is that the camera is aperture
priority, so it is tough to tell if the shutter is operating at 1/500,
or
slightly slower. Medium format is much better for this stuff.


You could look into the Konica S3 Auto. That is shutter priority auto
(no manual override, unfortunately) with a _fantastic_ 38mm f1.7 lens

Oops, make that f1.8

and, of course, sync. up to 1/500. It also has a nice fill flash system
that, in effect, tells you in the VF how much fill relative to ambient
you are
giving.

I have looked at a few, though the prices are not as nice as the Yashica
GT. The use of shutter priority is also a little limited in most
situations,
which might make it too specialized as a 35 mm camera body. With
medium format, and full manual control, the results are very accurate and
predictable.


Yes, they are a lot scarcer than the GTs, and the lens is a bit cultish.
But still, they're also a lot smaller and lighter than a GT. I do agree
about shutter priority being less useful though - I think of mine as a
camera for very specific circumstances: low light, and for use with flash
fill. Sometimes even in low light I'd rather have aperture priority (or
manual, obviously) but shutter is a help ocassionally if working fast and
trying to control movement.

I just got back from a trip when (as well as 35mm SLRs and a 6x9 outfit) I
had two rangefinders with me: an Olympus SP for daytime (mostly) people
shots on B&W, and a Konica S3 for some evening shots. I knew I'd be asked
to do some band shots when I got there, and the Konica, with iso 800 in it,
was a very nice tool (in addition to a Pentax MZ-S).

I like my little Konica better than the Yashica GT series, and about as much
as my CC and GX - though the shutter priority means it doesn't get used as
often since it is a 'special purpose' machine. It's a _lot_ lighter than
a GX though.


Peter
(who also prefers Medium Format and full manual, but probably not in the
mosh pit...)

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
. ..
Bandicoot wrote:

A flash meter with a variable gate time is the answer to this.

Is there such a beast (no, I'm _not_ in the market for one, just
curious).

Yes, though not every flashmeter does it, and not sure how absolutely
relieable it is...


Peter

Bandicoot wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Bandicoot wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
[Snip]

I always think of the 1/500 of leaf shutters as a standard that
35mm generally falls short of. 1/250 .. 1/300 is damned good of
course.

Another reason why I got a Yashica Electro GT (actually two, but
who's counting). While I am stuck to one fixed lens, it is one way to
get that 1/500 in 35 mm. One problem is that the camera is aperture
priority, so it is tough to tell if the shutter is operating at 1/500,
or
slightly slower. Medium format is much better for this stuff.


You could look into the Konica S3 Auto. That is shutter priority auto
(no manual override, unfortunately) with a _fantastic_ 38mm f1.7 lens

Oops, make that f1.8

and, of course, sync. up to 1/500. It also has a nice fill flash system
that, in effect, tells you in the VF how much fill relative to ambient
you are
giving.

I have looked at a few, though the prices are not as nice as the Yashica
GT. The use of shutter priority is also a little limited in most
situations,
which might make it too specialized as a 35 mm camera body. With
medium format, and full manual control, the results are very accurate and
predictable.


Yes, they are a lot scarcer than the GTs, and the lens is a bit cultish.
But still, they're also a lot smaller and lighter than a GT.

That would probably be better. The Yashica GT actually seems larger and heavier
than my Nikon FM.

I do agree
about shutter priority being less useful though - I think of mine as a
camera for very specific circumstances: low light, and for use with flash
fill. Sometimes even in low light I'd rather have aperture priority (or
manual, obviously) but shutter is a help ocassionally if working fast and
trying to control movement.

Mostly, I have used the Yashicas as low light cameras, which is mostly why I
have them. The light meter will time the shutter out to around 30 seconds
(maybe longer; have not tried), which is great under low light. In daylight
usage, I tend to put a two or three stops ND filter onto the camera, and use
them near maximum aperture.



I just got back from a trip when (as well as 35mm SLRs and a 6x9 outfit) I
had two rangefinders with me: an Olympus SP for daytime (mostly) people
shots on B&W, and a Konica S3 for some evening shots. I knew I'd be asked
to do some band shots when I got there, and the Konica, with iso 800 in it,
was a very nice tool (in addition to a Pentax MZ-S).

The light meter outside of the lens on the Yashica GT allows fitting an ND
filter, and then moving the ISO dial to use higher speed films. Since the ND is
only on the lens, there is no change in view through the viewfinder.



I like my little Konica better than the Yashica GT series, and about as much
as my CC and GX - though the shutter priority means it doesn't get used as
often since it is a 'special purpose' machine. It's a _lot_ lighter than
a GX though.

I am not so happy with the size and weight of the Yashica GT. A different, or
more modern rangefinder might be better, though much more expensive. I don't
know that I would go for another older rangefinder with fixed lens, though if I
found a nice example, I might buy something else.



Peter
(who also prefers Medium Format and full manual, but probably not in the
mosh pit...)

I do some concert photography as well, though I try to stick to being on the
stage. I could definitely use the Yashica for crowd control, if I need it. ;-)

I am working on a strange medium format construction. It involves an Ilex
shutter, Nikon 35 mm f2.8 shift lens, mounted on a 6x9 body (likely masked down
to 6x7, or similar). Until that camera gets closer to being finished, I am not
doing any other project cameras.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com Updated!