[SI] Pairs comments - Alan B.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 15:08:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-08-02 13:43:43 -0700, PeterN said:
:
: On 8/2/2012 11:55 AM, Savageduck wrote:
:
:
: snip
:
: Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
: comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
: of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
: can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
: eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.
:
:
: I have not read any comment advocating the elimination of comments in
: the SI, have you?
:
: No!
: I have however read quite a few justifying why they might be inclined
: to comment on some shots and not others. That if somebody had already
: said something that came close to their thoughts, they might save
: themselves the time, and effort to express their particular take on any
: of those images.
: ...or assuming that because a shooter was not a regular commentator,
: they didn't care if recognition of their image by way of comment is
: made or not.
:
: Indeed comments in the SI are quit helpful, but like other good things,
: too much can be harmful.
: Water is essential for life, but too much can kill you.
:
: Who quantifies how much is too much?
: It appears that commentators might have to make their selection on what
: they remark on, by using some strange Solomonic wisdom.
:
: Throw all of them a bone.
: Who wants to be the lone shooter wondering, "Did anybody even notice
: what I was trying to share, and the work I put into it?" or "Perhaps I
: can get better feed back from, ...er
: http://www.group.as/behind%20the%20l...uing%20circle/
: than sticking around this bunch?"

What's being lost in this discussion is that giving good comments is hard, and
many people - even among those willing to submit their work to the judgement
of others - are reluctant to take it on, either because they don't feel
competent to do so or don't think they can afford the time it takes to do it
well. Insisting that if you comment on one picture you have to comment on all
pictures, just makes it worse.

Bob

On 2012-08-03 15:44:12 -0700, Robert Coe said:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 15:08:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-08-02 13:43:43 -0700, PeterN said:
:
: On 8/2/2012 11:55 AM, Savageduck wrote:
:
:
: snip
:
: Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
: comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
: of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
: can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
: eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.
:
:
: I have not read any comment advocating the elimination of comments in
: the SI, have you?
:
: No!
: I have however read quite a few justifying why they might be inclined
: to comment on some shots and not others. That if somebody had already
: said something that came close to their thoughts, they might save
: themselves the time, and effort to express their particular take on any
: of those images.
: ...or assuming that because a shooter was not a regular commentator,
: they didn't care if recognition of their image by way of comment is
: made or not.
:
: Indeed comments in the SI are quit helpful, but like other good things,
: too much can be harmful.
: Water is essential for life, but too much can kill you.
:
: Who quantifies how much is too much?
: It appears that commentators might have to make their selection on what
: they remark on, by using some strange Solomonic wisdom.
:
: Throw all of them a bone.
: Who wants to be the lone shooter wondering, "Did anybody even notice
: what I was trying to share, and the work I put into it?" or "Perhaps I
: can get better feed back from, ...er
: http://www.group.as/behind%20the%20l...uing%20circle/
: than sticking around this bunch?"

What's being lost in this discussion is that giving good comments is hard, and
many people - even among those willing to submit their work to the judgement
of others - are reluctant to take it on, either because they don't feel
competent to do so or don't think they can afford the time it takes to do it
well. Insisting that if you comment on one picture you have to comment on all
pictures, just makes it worse.

Bob

I agree that it is not easy to sit down and compose any sort of
commentary, I know what sort of time and effort I put into it. I am not
advocating that all SI photographers comment. It would be nice to here
from those who merely lurk, I know they exist. Looking at the work of
others with a critical eye, helps you to look at your own work with a
critical eye, and making carefully measured comments helps to develop
that critical eye to benefit your own product.

....but I am tiring of being the lone voice on my side of this debate,
so I concede.
Just let things go on as before.
I might see what sort of comments materialize before I decide to
compose my thoughts into comments for future SI mandates.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2012-08-03 16:04:32 -0700, Savageduck said:

On 2012-08-03 15:44:12 -0700, Robert Coe said:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 15:08:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-08-02 13:43:43 -0700, PeterN said:
:
: On 8/2/2012 11:55 AM, Savageduck wrote:
:
:
: snip
:
: Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
: comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
: of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
: can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
: eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.
:
:
: I have not read any comment advocating the elimination of comments in
: the SI, have you?
:
: No!
: I have however read quite a few justifying why they might be inclined
: to comment on some shots and not others. That if somebody had already
: said something that came close to their thoughts, they might save
: themselves the time, and effort to express their particular take on any
: of those images.
: ...or assuming that because a shooter was not a regular commentator,
: they didn't care if recognition of their image by way of comment is
: made or not.
:
: Indeed comments in the SI are quit helpful, but like other good things,
: too much can be harmful.
: Water is essential for life, but too much can kill you.
:
: Who quantifies how much is too much?
: It appears that commentators might have to make their selection on what
: they remark on, by using some strange Solomonic wisdom.
:
: Throw all of them a bone.
: Who wants to be the lone shooter wondering, "Did anybody even notice
: what I was trying to share, and the work I put into it?" or "Perhaps I
: can get better feed back from, ...er
: http://www.group.as/behind%20the%20l...uing%20circle/
: than sticking around this bunch?"

What's being lost in this discussion is that giving good comments is hard, and
many people - even among those willing to submit their work to the judgement
of others - are reluctant to take it on, either because they don't feel
competent to do so or don't think they can afford the time it takes to do it
well. Insisting that if you comment on one picture you have to comment on all
pictures, just makes it worse.

Bob

I agree that it is not easy to sit down and compose any sort of
commentary, I know what sort of time and effort I put into it. I am not
advocating that all SI photographers comment. It would be nice to here

Damn! did I actually type "here" instead of "hear"??

from those who merely lurk, I know they exist. Looking at the work of
others with a critical eye, helps you to look at your own work with a
critical eye, and making carefully measured comments helps to develop
that critical eye to benefit your own product.

...but I am tiring of being the lone voice on my side of this debate,
so I concede.
Just let things go on as before.
I might see what sort of comments materialize before I decide to
compose my thoughts into comments for future SI mandates.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:44:47 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: I've only commented the once, on the last [SI] and I fould the
: experience very valuable.
:
: I learned (as if I didn't already know) that images which left me cold
: were loved by other people.
:
: I learned that images which I loved were torn apart by others.
:
: I learned how to explain why I liked some and disliked others. Most
: importantly I learned how to apply my comments to my own work.
:
: The hardest images to deal with were those I variously liked or
: disliked for reasons I couldn't really explain. Vague comments such as
: "I like it" don't necessarily mean that I don't like it much, or that
: I haven't thought about it. It merely means that I _do_ like it but I
: can't explain why.
:
: Overall, I think I learned more from my comments than did anyone who
: read them.

I think you're not alone.

Bob

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:47:50 -0700 (PDT), otter
wrote:
: I didn't know where to interject this, but this seems as good a place
: as any. From the afterword to "And The Hippos Were Boiled In Their
: Tanks", a book written by both Kerouac and Burroughs:
:
: Kerouac describes his collaboration with Burroughs in the winter of
: 1944-45.
:
: Why, old Will in that time, he just awaited the next monstrous
: production from the pen of his young friend, me, and when I brought
: them in he pursed his lips in an attitude of amused inquiry and read.
: Having read what I offered up, he nodded his head and returned the
: production to the hands of the maker. Me, I sat there perched on a
: stool somewhat near this man's feet, either in my room or in his
: apartment on Riverside Drive, in a conscious attitude of adoring
: expectation, and finding my work returned to me with no more comment
: than a nod of the head, said, almost blushingly, "You've read it, what
: you think?"
:
: The man Hubbard [Burroughs] nodded his head, like a Buddha, having
: come to life from out of Nirvana what else was he s'posed to do? He
: joined his fingertips resignedly. Peering over the arch of his hands
: he answered, "Good, good."
:
: "But what do you specifically think of it?"
:
: "Why ..." pursing his lips and looking toward a sympathetic and
: equally amused wall, "why, I don't specifically THINK of it. I just
: rather like it, is all."

My college classmate Winston Lord used to tell a story from his early days of
working for Henry Kissinger.

Winston had been assigned to write a position paper on some esoteric subject,
and eager to impress Kissinger with the depth of his research, worked his butt
off and submitted a massive draft. After not hearing back for a few days, he
asked Kissinger what he thought. Kissinger's reply was, "Is that the best you
can do?" "No," said Winston dejectedly, and took back the draft. He rewrote it
completely and submitted it again, but Kissinger's reaction was the same: "Is
this the best you can do?" So Winston rewrote it again. After the same thing
happened once or twice more, Winston lost it. "Yes, dammit!" he told
Kissinger, "This is the best I can do." Kissinger's reply: "OK, now I'll read
it."

Bob

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 19:42:02 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:44:47 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: I've only commented the once, on the last [SI] and I fould the
: experience very valuable.
:
: I learned (as if I didn't already know) that images which left me cold
: were loved by other people.
:
: I learned that images which I loved were torn apart by others.
:
: I learned how to explain why I liked some and disliked others. Most
: importantly I learned how to apply my comments to my own work.
:
: The hardest images to deal with were those I variously liked or
: disliked for reasons I couldn't really explain. Vague comments such as
: "I like it" don't necessarily mean that I don't like it much, or that
: I haven't thought about it. It merely means that I _do_ like it but I
: can't explain why.
:
: Overall, I think I learned more from my comments than did anyone who
: read them.

I think you're not alone.

I hope you were smiling when you said that. :-)

Ain't English wonderful?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 8/2/2012 6:08 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2012-08-02 13:43:43 -0700, PeterN said:

On 8/2/2012 11:55 AM, Savageduck wrote:


snip

Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.


I have not read any comment advocating the elimination of comments in
the SI, have you?

No!
I have however read quite a few justifying why they might be inclined to
comment on some shots and not others. That if somebody had already said
something that came close to their thoughts, they might save themselves
the time, and effort to express their particular take on any of those
images.
....or assuming that because a shooter was not a regular commentator,
they didn't care if recognition of their image by way of comment is made
or not.

Indeed comments in the SI are quit helpful, but like other good
things, too much can be harmful.
Water is essential for life, but too much can kill you.

Who quantifies how much is too much?
It appears that commentators might have to make their selection on what
they remark on, by using some strange Solomonic wisdom.

Throw all of them a bone.
Who wants to be the lone shooter wondering, "Did anybody even notice
what I was trying to share, and the work I put into it?" or "Perhaps I
can get better feed back from, ...er
http://www.group.as/behind%20the%20l...uing%20circle/
than sticking around this bunch?"



Eclectic group. Over 1.5 million circles????

--
Peter

On 2012-08-03 19:16 , Savageduck wrote:


Damn! did I actually type "here" instead of "hear"??

I due this all the thyme.


--
"Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
-Samuel Clemens.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:55:25 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.

It's rather like insisting that those who visit a gallery not talk
about the exhibits.

I expect there are contributors to [SI] who don't care whether their
entry is commented on or not. I doubt there a contributors who become
upset if they receive comments of any kind.

[SI] is a public place and if you really can't tolerate your work
receiving comments, then don't submit your work.

This is no big deal. It's probably happening already.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 8/9/2012 5:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:55:25 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.

It's rather like insisting that those who visit a gallery not talk
about the exhibits.

I expect there are contributors to [SI] who don't care whether their
entry is commented on or not. I doubt there a contributors who become
upset if they receive comments of any kind.

[SI] is a public place and if you really can't tolerate your work
receiving comments, then don't submit your work.

This is no big deal. It's probably happening already.


OMG Eric, didn't you see the Duck's sarcasm tags?

--

PeterN