350D, D70s, lenses - Need inspiration

I just cannot decide whether to choose the Canon 350D or Nikon D70s, so
I'm looking here for inspiration. I've done my homework and spent days
reading reviews and user opinions. I think my next step is to go find a
shop selling them both so I can see for myself what they look and feel
like. Canon boast about how small and light the 350D is but that's
always put me off this sort of product as it can feel and look more like
a toy. Of course what I'd really like is the Canon 20D, but there's no
chance I can afford that as well as lenses.

For now I'm more inclined to get the Nikon but I have some questions for
anyone who's experienced both cameras...

1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
consideration with the comparison?

2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
annoyance?

4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
Canon uses?

Ok, that's the cameras sorted out but now for the lenses. Assume for now
that I go for the Nikon D70s. I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens,
which I think I'd probably do. Although I want fast focusing, that's
more for a larger zoom so up to 70mm I'm not too worried. For the larger
lens I'd like to get a 70-300mm. I've looked at many options but reviews
don't say much about focus speed, although some people comment that
focusing is slow on most the cheaper lenses. Oh one important point-I
can't spend more than about 850GBP in total, so that means 220GBP for
the 70-300mm lens, but I can go a little higher if need be by holding
off buying it for a short time. I'm not in the market for anything too
fancy though.

Some lenses I'm looking at a

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG

I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
teleconverter. Even that is also said to have slow focus though, and as
that's what I particularly want I'm put off many of these lenses. The
only lens I've seen where the focus is said to be fast is the Canon
100-300mm, but I won't get into that at the moment as I think I'm more
likely going for the D70s.

If anyone can give me any inspiration in what to do here, I'd be very
grateful! I'm going nuts trying to work out the best and cheapest
options, without sacrificing quality too much.

Thanks loads,
Geoff.

Answers below.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
I just cannot decide whether to choose the Canon 350D or Nikon D70s, so I'm
looking here for inspiration. I've done my homework and spent days reading
reviews and user opinions. I think my next step is to go find a shop
selling them both so I can see for myself what they look and feel like.
Canon boast about how small and light the 350D is but that's always put me
off this sort of product as it can feel and look more like a toy. Of course
what I'd really like is the Canon 20D, but there's no chance I can afford
that as well as lenses.

For now I'm more inclined to get the Nikon but I have some questions for
anyone who's experienced both cameras...

1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor and
lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into consideration
with the comparison?

Most photographers will not see the difference, if you have to ask then you
wont.

2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

The 350D is really light and plasticy, the D70s is a big solid bruiser,
large hand grip.

3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
annoyance?

Use an external card reader.


4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
Canon uses?

Probably not as critical as you might think, many photographers prefer
manual focus. If it is that critical then you should probably be spending
more on a camera.

Ok, that's the cameras sorted out but now for the lenses. Assume for now
that I go for the Nikon D70s. I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens,
which I think I'd probably do. Although I want fast focusing, that's more
for a larger zoom so up to 70mm I'm not too worried. For the larger lens
I'd like to get a 70-300mm. I've looked at many options but reviews don't
say much about focus speed, although some people comment that focusing is
slow on most the cheaper lenses. Oh one important point-I can't spend more
than about 850GBP in total, so that means 220GBP for the 70-300mm lens,
but I can go a little higher if need be by holding off buying it for a
short time. I'm not in the market for anything too fancy though.

Some lenses I'm looking at a

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG

Go with the Nikkor.

I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
teleconverter.

???? What about the Sigma 70-200mm F2.8?

Even that is also said to have slow focus though, and as
that's what I particularly want I'm put off many of these lenses. The only
lens I've seen where the focus is said to be fast is the Canon 100-300mm,
but I won't get into that at the moment as I think I'm more likely going
for the D70s.

If anyone can give me any inspiration in what to do here, I'd be very
grateful! I'm going nuts trying to work out the best and cheapest options,
without sacrificing quality too much.

Thanks loads,
Geoff.

Geoff wrote:

1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
consideration with the comparison?

Not worth taking into consideration. Incidentally, CMOS is inherently
noisier than CCD, not the other way around. But no, you won't notice
any difference.

2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

It's pretty obvious to me. Whether it actually matters to you is another
question entirely. Pick them up and see how they feel.

3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
annoyance?

Slight annoyance at most. I always used USB transfer rather than pulling
out the card, even though it was slower, just because it was more convenient.
Plug in the camera and then go do something else while it's loading. No big
deal.

I now have a D2x, and the USB 2 speed is welcome, especially since the files
are so much bigger, but it's still just not that important. By the time I'm
using USB, I'm done shooting and not in a hurry. If I'm in a hurry I'll just
pull the card and do it that way.

4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
Canon uses?

It actually works pretty well, but I can't compare it to the Canon. It can
track a car passing by at high speed, for example. Once you learn to use the
AF it is really quite good, though a lot does depend on the lens you use. A
slower lens will really hurt in that department.

I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens, which I think I'd probably do.
Although I want fast focusing, that's more for a larger zoom so up to
70mm I'm not too worried.

The 18-70 is fast with focusing.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG

I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
teleconverter.

I don't have experience with any of these lenses, but as a general rule,
go with Nikon ones rather than third-party. I, too, have heard that the
70-300 type zooms don't focus terribly fast. I'd go with something with
less zoom range, personally, like a 70-200.

--
Jeremy |

Thanks Pete and Jeremy for your time in answering my questions. With
what you've said and other stuff I've read tonight, I think I'm going to
go with the Nikon. I will still go see them both and have a little play,
but if others find the Canon too small and plasticky then I'm sure to also.

I'm surprised to read that CMOS is inherently noisier than CCD? I guess
that wherever I got the opposite from wasn't right, so this helps my
decision towards the Nikon.

As for getting more equipment like an external card reader and better,
faster zooms - I simply cannot afford it. I'm stretched to afford this
type of camera at all but I miss this hobby so much, and my current
Fujifilm Finepix 4900 just doesn't do the job at all (it cost me 700GBP
at the time and the cheapest SLR was about 2000! Now my Finepix is only
worth about 80).

So I'll go with the Nikon but I'm still not sure about which lens(es) to
buy. The Nikon kit lens maybe fast and fairly good but the zoom isn't
enough for me. So I'm really not sure what to do other than buy the kit
lens and save up. By the way I used to prefer manual focus but when
shooting fast moving objects it's not so easy, and with my Finepix 4900
I've got used to not being able to tell if the view is in focus or not
(the viewfinder is terrible), so I have to rely on AF, but that's very
very slow. In fact with moving objects AF is useless and manual is just
about useless.

Thanks again guys,
Geoff.

Geoff wrote:

I'm surprised to read that CMOS is inherently noisier than CCD? I guess
that wherever I got the opposite from wasn't right, so this helps my
decision towards the Nikon.

CMOS is inherently noisier, all else being equal -- obviously, it's not
equal. The noise isn't a factor. Don't even worry about it. You won't
notice it with either camera and you won't notice a difference between
them.

By the way I used to prefer manual focus but when shooting fast moving
objects it's not so easy, and with my Finepix 4900 I've got used to not
being able to tell if the view is in focus or not (the viewfinder is
terrible), so I have to rely on AF, but that's very very slow. In fact
with moving objects AF is useless and manual is just about useless.

The difference from any P&S to a decent SLR will be profound, in terms of
focusing. With Nikon, the "AF-S" lenses tend to be the fastest, but the
others are still a world apart from a P&S contrast-detection AF system.

--
Jeremy |

In article ,
says...
CMOS is inherently noisier, all else being equal -- obviously, it's not
equal. The noise isn't a factor. Don't even worry about it. You won't
notice it with either camera and you won't notice a difference between
them.

CMOS would be noisier if they didn't put noise removal circuitry on the
chip. They do, so it really does become a non-issue.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:11:01 +0100, Geoff
wrote:

As for getting more equipment like an external card reader and better,
faster zooms - I simply cannot afford it.

Never say never - you might find something more affordable
second-hand.

Al
--
[This space intentionally left blank]

In article ,
lid says...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:11:01 +0100, Geoff
wrote:

As for getting more equipment like an external card reader and better,
faster zooms - I simply cannot afford it.

Never say never - you might find something more affordable
second-hand.

Al

And external CF card readers can be had for about $12.

Even my firewire reader didn't cost me more than $18.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird

Geoff wrote in part:


I'm surprised to read that CMOS is inherently noisier than CCD? I guess
that wherever I got the opposite from wasn't right, so this helps my
decision towards the Nikon.


I'm thinking that Canon's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices in the
DIGIC processor must really be something special.

Someone on rpd will of course correct me if I'm wrong. And call me
nasty, foul names. Excellent, but if you want to make my .sigmata file,
remember that spelling counts.

--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"

In article ,
says...

For now I'm more inclined to get the Nikon but I have some questions for
anyone who's experienced both cameras...

1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
consideration with the comparison?

The "noise" from a Nikon is easily removed using a number of different
programs available on the net, notably Neat Image. Unlike the Nikon
where you have the option to decide just how much noise reduction you
want, the Canon uses in-camera algorithms to remove the noise (at the
expense of detail).

2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

Don't get me started! I would never buy a Canon consumer grade DSLR
again. Some people like them, but you are right..they do look like toys.

3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
annoyance?

Buy a card reader. A lot easier than connecting and disconnecting the
camera all the time.

4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
Canon uses?

Can't comment on the 350D, but the D70 even prior to the firmware
upgrade was pretty good (a *lot* better than the EOS D60 I had before
it).

Ok, that's the cameras sorted out but now for the lenses. Assume for now
that I go for the Nikon D70s. I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens,
which I think I'd probably do. Although I want fast focusing, that's
more for a larger zoom so up to 70mm I'm not too worried. For the larger
lens I'd like to get a 70-300mm. I've looked at many options but reviews
don't say much about focus speed, although some people comment that
focusing is slow on most the cheaper lenses. Oh one important point-I
can't spend more than about 850GBP in total, so that means 220GBP for
the 70-300mm lens, but I can go a little higher if need be by holding
off buying it for a short time. I'm not in the market for anything too
fancy though.

The Nikkor 18-70mm DX lens is awesome! It is very sharp for a kit lens
and extremely good value for money.

Some lenses I'm looking at a

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG

You'll be disappointed with those.

I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
teleconverter. Even that is also said to have slow focus though, and as
that's what I particularly want I'm put off many of these lenses. The
only lens I've seen where the focus is said to be fast is the Canon
100-300mm, but I won't get into that at the moment as I think I'm more
likely going for the D70s.

If anyone can give me any inspiration in what to do here, I'd be very
grateful! I'm going nuts trying to work out the best and cheapest
options, without sacrificing quality too much.

Get a Nikon.

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