Turn off all virus-scanning software

wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:21:57 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

I have NEVER turned off the virus software, and never had a problem...

Then you either were lucky or haven't noticed the viruses on
your system yet.

I've probably been lucky with the software I've chosen, it's true, but I've
never had a virus... since I never turn off the antivirus there wouldn't be much
chance of one, now would there?

We are going _way_ off topic, but, ...
you are wrong. Just quickly highliting a few facts:
a) there _is_ no way to detect with 100% assurance whether a
program is/contains a virus. This is the halting
problem[1] all over.
b) Having the source code does not help (the compiler might
add the virus during compilation.
c) Having the source code for the compiler doesn't help
either: the compiler might already contain code that
detects typical compilers and add special instructions for
b) anyway.
d) AV software can only work against well-known viuses, and
that only after they have been (often automatically)
analyzed for fingerprints. New or unknown viruses slip
through the tracks.
e) d) doesn't work against virus droppers, that are not
themselves infected.
f) heuristics are "guesswork", by definition. Guessing wrong
is a common affair.
g) Infections coming through the net, attacking (unpatched)
bugs in the Windows OS, turning the PC into a zombie for a
bot net, cannot be prevented by AV software. Unfortunately,
even systems newly installed and connected to the internet
solely to download upgrades/patches can be and often enough
are infected during this phase of vulnerability.
h) Risk-compensating behavior. Many people with airbags and
other gear to increase the security of their car drive riskier
("I am protected by ...") and thus negate the added security
they could enjoy. The same is true for AV software.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entscheidungsproblem

it would probably warn you.

And then, like 99.9% of all Windows users, where a new window
pops up every time a gnat farted near your computer, you will
click the warning window away: "no, don't allow" --- breaking
the install.

Speak for yourself...

I don't use Windows.
I do watch windows users, though.

[firewalls]
Unless your install requires the internet... which most do today.

The only internet 99.99% of my installs require is the one to
download it from first. Which I only use becazse I don't have
them on file or CD already.

-Wolfgang

Mr. Strat wrote:
In article op.t0ijr2agf3vmig@slacker, ?Slack
wrote:

It is wise to disable AV software when installing any software.

ROTFLMAO

Find that humorous do you?

I've seen cases where the AV software thought some component that was
being installed was a virus and blocked it from installation, therefore
rendering the installed program either non-functional or buggy.

But I really don't give a ****...we Mac people have no need for
AV/anti-spyware software.
That would be mainly due to your user percentage, not some 'better'
system setup or what not.. As soon as Apple put things up for mass
market, it gets *just* as reverse-engineered as anything out there..

P.

In article jX6Ti.27163$GO5.7112@edtnps90, Pboud
wrote:

That would be mainly due to your user percentage, not some 'better'
system setup or what not.. As soon as Apple put things up for mass
market, it gets *just* as reverse-engineered as anything out there..

Thank you for perpetuating ridiculous myths.

The reason Macs have no viruses or spyware has nothing to do with
market share. It has everything to do with how the operating system is
designed. And last time I checked, Apple computers were a mass market
item. You can go into stores and buy them, as Apples quarterly figures
will show lots of people did.

Here's a quarter...go buy yourself a clue.

Mr. Strat wrote:
In article jX6Ti.27163$GO5.7112@edtnps90, Pboud
wrote:

That would be mainly due to your user percentage, not some 'better'
system setup or what not.. As soon as Apple put things up for mass
market, it gets *just* as reverse-engineered as anything out there..

Thank you for perpetuating ridiculous myths.

The reason Macs have no viruses or spyware has nothing to do with
market share. It has everything to do with how the operating system is
designed. And last time I checked, Apple computers were a mass market
item. You can go into stores and buy them, as Apples quarterly figures
will show lots of people did.

Here's a quarter...go buy yourself a clue.
Wow.. something else to have a holy war over..

Yup.. they're a mass market item.. and they've got *what* percentage of
computer-using numbers?

Do some research.. I happen to like Apple's computers.. what I *don't*
like is the holier-than-thou approach some users have based on
viruses/spyware/etc. Microsoft is just one big, fat, slow-moving target
for hackers.. it also handles (easily) the majority of business
processing (not counting server or DB.. talking 'office' business) so
the boys know if they can kick part of it down, they get a solid return
on investment.

Macs are wonderful computers.. solid, reliable, kinda affordable.. They
do *not* have a large footprint in the business world, however.

Thanks for the clue.. Sure you can spare it?

P.

In article 9s9Ti.27152$G25.459@edtnps89, Pboud
wrote:

Macs are wonderful computers.. solid, reliable, kinda affordable.. They
do *not* have a large footprint in the business world, however.

that depends on the business. macs have a huge footprint in graphics,
video, music, but not so much in accounting and legal arenas. also, the
business world is not the only world -- there's a crapload of home
users, students, etc.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:34:43 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:21:57 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

I have NEVER turned off the virus software, and never had a problem...

Then you either were lucky or haven't noticed the viruses on
your system yet.

I've probably been lucky with the software I've chosen, it's true, but I've
never had a virus... since I never turn off the antivirus there wouldn't be much
chance of one, now would there?

We are going _way_ off topic, but, ...
you are wrong.

I suppose the theory of risk seems high, but I've only had 1 virus in my life,
and that was from a friends machine whom I was trying to set up, and I
accidentally carried a floppy back to my machine to get something... I trusted
the machine because it was new, but apparently the store wasn't trustworthy.

This was ages ago, and the machine was a 486... I had no virus software at the
time, but I cured it by installing Thunder byte. (remember that?)

Since then I've had more machines than I can count (I set up my friends and
relatives machines too) and still no virus. (I'm much more careful now)

Just quickly highliting a few facts:
a) there _is_ no way to detect with 100% assurance whether a
program is/contains a virus. This is the halting
problem[1] all over.

Virus, by definition, increases the file size. Did you ever find a backup file
smaller then the present file? A good clue...

b) Having the source code does not help (the compiler might
add the virus during compilation.
c) Having the source code for the compiler doesn't help
either: the compiler might already contain code that
detects typical compilers and add special instructions for
b) anyway.

Not a lot of people compiling with virus, I imagine... My C compiler is so old
any virus would have died of old age...

d) AV software can only work against well-known viuses, and
that only after they have been (often automatically)
analyzed for fingerprints. New or unknown viruses slip
through the tracks.
e) d) doesn't work against virus droppers, that are not
themselves infected.
f) heuristics are "guesswork", by definition. Guessing wrong
is a common affair.
g) Infections coming through the net, attacking (unpatched)
bugs in the Windows OS, turning the PC into a zombie for a
bot net, cannot be prevented by AV software. Unfortunately,
even systems newly installed and connected to the internet
solely to download upgrades/patches can be and often enough
are infected during this phase of vulnerability.

That's why I turned off windows auto ****up... I mean upgrade... it seemed to me
something besides windose could 'upgrade' my machine if I wasn't careful. Roxio
even managed to give itself permission to go thru my firewall! That was a
strange one, I just found it and removed permission.

h) Risk-compensating behavior. Many people with airbags and
other gear to increase the security of their car drive riskier
("I am protected by ...") and thus negate the added security
they could enjoy. The same is true for AV software.

I am aware of that, and I don't do risky behavior just because I'm protected...
that's for fools...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entscheidungsproblem

it would probably warn you.

And then, like 99.9% of all Windows users, where a new window
pops up every time a gnat farted near your computer, you will
click the warning window away: "no, don't allow" --- breaking
the install.

Speak for yourself...

I don't use Windows.

Stop bragging!!

I do watch windows users, though.

[firewalls]
Unless your install requires the internet... which most do today.

The only internet 99.99% of my installs require is the one to
download it from first. Which I only use becazse I don't have
them on file or CD already.

I just bought a new machine about 3 months ago, and it failed to install Office
(trial version) because it isn't on the net... I would imagine an Office install
could be easily blocked by a firewall. I put Publisher on the machine as well,
and it says after 48 runs it will commit suicide because it can't phone Billy at
home...

-Wolfgang

In article 9s9Ti.27152$G25.459@edtnps89, Pboud
wrote:

Yup.. they're a mass market item.. and they've got *what* percentage of
computer-using numbers?

Just because Britney Spears sells a lot of records doesn't mean that
she can sing.

Do some research.. I happen to like Apple's computers.. what I *don't*
like is the holier-than-thou approach some users have based on
viruses/spyware/etc. Microsoft is just one big, fat, slow-moving target
for hackers.. it also handles (easily) the majority of business
processing (not counting server or DB.. talking 'office' business) so
the boys know if they can kick part of it down, they get a solid return
on investment.

Macs are wonderful computers.. solid, reliable, kinda affordable.. They
do *not* have a large footprint in the business world, however.

Thanks for the clue.. Sure you can spare it?

You could use an education in operating systems.

In OS X, the default user is not an admin with root access...kinda
tough to install software (viruses and spyware are software) that way.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:38:59 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a new machine about 3 months ago, and it failed to install
Office
(trial version) because it isn't on the net... I would imagine an Office
install
could be easily blocked by a firewall. I put Publisher on the machine as
well,
and it says after 48 runs it will commit suicide because it can't phone
Billy at
home...

-Wolfgang


http://symphony.lotus.com/software/l...hony/home.jspa

--
Slack

Mr. Strat wrote:
In article 9s9Ti.27152$G25.459@edtnps89, Pboud
wrote:

Yup.. they're a mass market item.. and they've got *what* percentage of
computer-using numbers?

Just because Britney Spears sells a lot of records doesn't mean that
she can sing.

Do some research.. I happen to like Apple's computers.. what I *don't*
like is the holier-than-thou approach some users have based on
viruses/spyware/etc. Microsoft is just one big, fat, slow-moving target
for hackers.. it also handles (easily) the majority of business
processing (not counting server or DB.. talking 'office' business) so
the boys know if they can kick part of it down, they get a solid return
on investment.

Macs are wonderful computers.. solid, reliable, kinda affordable.. They
do *not* have a large footprint in the business world, however.

Thanks for the clue.. Sure you can spare it?

You could use an education in operating systems.
Been programming for over 12 years.. but *do* go on..

In OS X, the default user is not an admin with root access...kinda
tough to install software (viruses and spyware are software) that way.

Yah.. I know.. now, please tell me how that little tidbit changes the
numbers ?

nospam wrote:
In article 9s9Ti.27152$G25.459@edtnps89, Pboud
wrote:

Macs are wonderful computers.. solid, reliable, kinda affordable.. They
do *not* have a large footprint in the business world, however.

that depends on the business. macs have a huge footprint in graphics,
video, music,
I know.. it's actually why I'm looking at getting one for myself


but not so much in accounting and legal arenas. also, the
business world is not the only world -- there's a crapload of home
users, students, etc.

Yes, there is. it's a nice, solid series of models, and has a following.
My point was that 'overall', there are a fair bit more 'pc' users,
which is why most hackers go that route.. That, and Microsoft has shown
itself to be moronically inclined when it comes to security so far,(as
lovingly pointed out with the 'root user' bit) so they are essentially
wearing a 'hack me' sign.. Still, this is due to their absolute monopoly
of software usage on the PC side.

P.