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Ventilate or Scrub



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 19th 04, 04:03 PM
Jim Phelps
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Default Ventilate or Scrub


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
With all the talk of darkroom ventilation, air scrubbers came to mind.
I've been reminded of those who turn on the shower to clear the air.
At www.safelab.com click on, technical resources. Dan


Just a thought, In the type of system you envision with the scrubber, you
would also need to control humidity. The size of this system just got
larger by a whole bunch...



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  #12  
Old February 19th 04, 04:35 PM
otzi
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Default Horse Feathers!


"PSsquare" wrote in message
news
Otzi,

You asked as series of questions.

What is a good filter for incoming air or what can one adapt for this
purpose?


I am using an American Air Filter pleated "Dirt Demon" that has about 50%
collection efficiency at 2.3 microns. There are lot of suppliers out
there.
The package usually gives the collection efficiency. Collection

increases
for larger particle sizes, so I am essentially getting most stuff about
arond 5 microns. (There are 25.5 microns in one thousandth inch, so that
seems adequate. A human hair around 100 to 150 microns, I thinkl.)

And what does one use to move the air with?


I am using a rotary fan built into a light proof baffle. Bought it from
Porters and built a box over the intake to hold a furnace filter. This

puts
the room at positive pressure. I have a smaller centrifugal fan build

into
a box and set over the wet sink to exhaust fumes. I pipe the exhaust thru

3
inch flex hose to the outside. The centrifugal fan is bathroom exhaust

fan
that I boxed into to make it sit on a shelf over the sink. It's capacity

is
about 40% of the incoming fan, so it does not pull a negative pressure in
the darkroom. So overall I filter the input for clean makeup air, capture
fumes over the sink and exhaust them.

For dust, apart for all the forgoing, has any one tried one of those

water
pot vacuum cleaners? Apart for the noise would they work? Would need to

be
going for a fair while to have any effect I would recon.



Don't have any experience with what you suggest, but I cannot imagine that

a
vacuum cleaner would move enough air. They are designed to create high
intake suction rather than exhaust quantities of clean air. Anyhow, the
noise would be terrible. At least, that it how it seems to me.

Good luck

PSsquare



Thanks, thats given me a bit af a idea any way.


  #13  
Old February 19th 04, 07:36 PM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Default Horse Feathers!

One can get a fine particle filter for
a forced-air furnace and/or whole
house air-conditioner.

I find it keeps dust from being blown into my darkroom.
If the darkroom is left fallow for a few months, when I
return there is no dust build-up. Obviously the darkroom
is hooked to the house's HVAC.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
  #14  
Old February 20th 04, 01:22 AM
Dan Quinn
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Default Ventilate or Scrub

"Jim Phelps" wrote

"Dan Quinn"wrote
With all the talk of darkroom ventilation, air scrubbers came to mind.
I've been reminded of those who turn on the shower to clear the air.
At www.safelab.com click on, technical resources. Dan


Just a thought, In the type of system you envision with the scrubber,
you would also need to control humidity. The size of this system just
got larger by a whole bunch...


The fume hood unit described at Safelab has all the bells and
whistles. I suppose it may exhaust indoor or outdoor. Water flows down
and air moves up.
Just off-hand I'd think a unit a foot square and three feet tall
might do for an eight hundred square foot darkroom. An air velocity of
one foot per/second is less than one mile/hour. That air velocity will
provide sixty cubic feet/minute of scrubbed and humidified air.
A recirculating pump with filter plus a low rpm fan would be required.
A sump heater would help bring up the humidity. There would be some
maintanence required. Dan
  #15  
Old February 20th 04, 08:44 AM
Jim Phelps
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Default Ventilate or Scrub


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Phelps" wrote

Dan, If you vent inside, then humidity will be a problem. For the most
part the air traversing the scrubber becomes saturated with water vapor. It
would act as a humidifier unless some means are used to dry out the air.
Hence a dehumidifier. Most dehumidifiers that are commercially available
use the refrigeration process to condense the water out of the air. This
will make the expense of installation and operation increase significantly
(it'll drive the electrical bill through the roof). Otherwise you must vent
to the outside. And if you do vent outside, due to the airflow, this air
must be drawn from somewhere and you're back to providing filtered air into
the darkroom. The scrubber liquor (I wonder if that's the correct use of
that word for this purpose, but who knows) still must be disposed of so you
are not reducing the chemical disposal and environmental issue

Now, I'm all for ecological darkroom use. However, _I_ do not believe the
particulate or emissive vapors are of significant quantity from the home
darkroom enthusiast to warrant the expense of a scrubber. A good cross
ventilation system with one or more blowers would provide the best - and
cheapest - method of maintaining a healthy and fume free darkroom.

For those looking for good, cheap and efficient filters for your darkroom
needs, don't overlook the pleated paper filters available in the Auto Parts
store. Some diesel engines use good size ones, they're practically a HEPA
filter and cost about $10.00. I used one in a home made negative drying
cabinet...



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  #16  
Old February 21st 04, 12:55 AM
Dan Quinn
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Default Ventilate or Scrub

"Jim Phelps" wrote

Dan, If you vent inside, then humidity will be a problem. For the
most part the air traversing the scrubber becomes saturated with
water vapor. It would act as a humidifier unless some means are
used to dry out the air.


Well I'd have to play with it some. Saturation would likely never
occure due to my leaky, intermittently used, moisture absorbing darkroom.
A low, medium and high setting using a split phase fan motor may help.
Besides, I'm after a higher humidity.

The scrubber liquor (I wonder if that's the correct use of
that word for this purpose, but who knows) still must be disposed
of so you are not reducing the chemical disposal and
environmental issue.


Liquor? water would be more like it. That goes down the drain. The
pump filter catches the particulate matter.


Now, I'm all for ecological darkroom use. However, I do not believe
the particulate or emissive vapors are of significant quantity from
the home darkroom enthusiast to warrant the expense of a scrubber.


Think of it as a humidifier which will de-oder, de-fume and
de-particulate.

For those looking for good, cheap and efficient filters for your
darkroom needs, don't overlook the pleated paper filters available
in the Auto Parts store. Some diesel engines use good size ones,
they're practically a HEPA filter and cost about $10.00. I used
one in a home made negative drying cabinet...


Pre-filtering and activated charcoal might be a good idea. That would
be the delux version.
 




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