Issue with LR, lenses, & exif data

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 23:37:25 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 17:11:18 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:07:04 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-07-12 22:37:55 +0000, Bill W said:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:17:39 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-07-12 16:56:14 +0000, Bill W said:


This all started because I wanted to search for all photos with a
certain lens. The search works if I search for "Pentax", but not for
"Sigma". So it appears that there is no way to quickly find all
existing photos taken with any of my non-Pentax lenses. It just
doesn't make sense that Adobe would do things this way.

That type of search works better in Bridge.

Well I hope you're happy, you've now made things worse.

Sorry about that.

I have a folder with 4 photos, sequential photos, all taken under
identical conditions within minutes of each other with a Sigma lens.
If I search within "all metadata" for "sigma", the search returns 2 of
those 4 photos. So I look in the metadata, and "sigma" does not appear
anywhere in any of the 4 photos. If I search a folder with all Pentax
lens shots, there are no search returns with "sigma".

What do you get with a focal length search?

To add to the confusion, there is a list of filters you can use on the
lower left. There are twice as many filters to choose from when the
shots are with a Pentax lens.

That sounds like a Pentax/Sigma issue.

I'm reminded of when I used to think Adobe sucks, but I suspect this
might have something more to do with the way Pentax writes its
metadata. Or maybe it's a combination of Pentax & Adobe. Either way,
one of them sucks.

With Fujicon FX lenses the Fujifilm "Lens Modulation Optimizer" is used
in-camera to apply CF, and distortion corrections. Fuji ad Adobe have
coordiated, so LR/ACR does not expect to see a lens profile applied in
the Lens Correction panel.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_198e.png

Again, DXO seems to be the only software that has no issues with the
metadata. After all these years of digital photography, you wouldn't
expect this sort of thing.

The only issues I have had with LR/ACR Lens profiles have been with my
old Nikkor 80-400mm where I have never found a profile and the EXIF
reports it as 82-400mm; and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 which also had no
profile when I got the lens, so I had to build my own. A few months
later Adobe and Tokina got their act together and the proprietary
profiles arrived with a LR/ACR update.

After reading all of nospam's and Floyd's comments, it's pretty clear
that there is blame to spread around. And it turns out that LR does
recognize one of my Sigma lenses, but not the others. I guess metadata
isn't written and read consistently through the hardware and software
that use it. But what it really means is that a photo search based on
any metadata is pretty treacherous. You should never assume you're
getting accurate results.

I am curious why you have a need to sort for lens used. Generally, a
photographer reviews recent images and decides that a particular lens
produces good or bad results, and stops using a lens that doesn't
produce good results. Results are seen and known soon after use of
the lens.

I have the information available in LR on when I've used a Nikon lens
and when I've used my Tamron lens, but never had any inclination to
pull up shots by lens.

What's your reason?

It's related to a AF/MF issue in another thread, or maybe even this
one. I could not get focused shots of a band with AF with a certain
lens, and I wanted to look over some other shots with that lens to see
if I had missed a problem that was always there. I don't use that lens
too much, so the quickest way to find photos taken with it was to do a
search. Or it would have been the quickest way. I'm pretty
disappointed.

The broader point is that it's not necessarily just the lens data that
is getting munged, and other searches could give bad results, too. And
the saddest result I got is where I searched 4 photos for "Sigma", and
2 came back, but none of the 4 actually had "sigma" anywhere in the
metadata displayed by Bridge, even though all 4 were taken with the
same Sigma lens.

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:


After reading all of nospam's and Floyd's comments, it's pretty clear
that there is blame to spread around. And it turns out that LR does
recognize one of my Sigma lenses, but not the others. I guess metadata
isn't written and read consistently through the hardware and software
that use it. But what it really means is that a photo search based on
any metadata is pretty treacherous. You should never assume you're
getting accurate results.

don't blame the technology just because sigma screws it up.

What does Sigma have to do with this? Pentax writes the metadata.
And Adobe reads the metadata. Sigma has nothing to do with it!

he's having problems with sigma lenses, not pentax lenses.

Not true. He is having problems with metadata written
to the file by a Pentax camera.

pentax just writes whatever the lens reports.

That is not true. Or at least it need not be true.

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

often discussed on dpreview. here's one thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26630814
Sigma 150-500 @ PMA question
....
2. When I imported my pictures into Lightroom, the lens shows up as
an 18-200 3.5.-5.6. My 150mm shots show as 18mm, and my 500mm
shots show as 200mm, and the 250mm as 52mm...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26639405
I haven't used the Sigma 150-500mm, but I did own and use a Sigma
100-300mm f4 EX DG lens. When using Lightroom, it incorrectly reports
this lens as a Sigma 80-200mm f2.8, but it does report the correct
focal length used in the image. Using other software (e.g., Nikon
Capture NX or View NX), it does not report any lens type, but it does
correctly report the focal length. The Nikon software and Lightroom
correctly reports both the lens type and focal length used for all of
my Nikkor lenses.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26641738
...So either the lens sends the wrong data, the camera writes the
wrong data when creating the file, or Lightroom misinterprets the
data. I didn't really care that Lightroom thought that the lens was a
Sigma 80-200mm, since it was the only Sigma lens that I had. It would
report that my 80-200mm lens was used at 280mm which is rather odd,
but at least it gave the correct focal length info.

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

often discussed on dpreview. here's one thread:

No that is not what is discussed! Read more carefully.
Various software packages can't interpret what the data
is, and report the lens identity incorrectly. That is
not a Sigma problem, that is a problem with the software
package.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26630814
Sigma 150-500 @ PMA question
...
2. When I imported my pictures into Lightroom, the lens shows up as
an 18-200 3.5.-5.6. My 150mm shots show as 18mm, and my 500mm
shots show as 200mm, and the 250mm as 52mm...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26639405
I haven't used the Sigma 150-500mm, but I did own and use a Sigma
100-300mm f4 EX DG lens. When using Lightroom, it incorrectly reports
this lens as a Sigma 80-200mm f2.8, but it does report the correct
focal length used in the image. Using other software (e.g., Nikon
Capture NX or View NX), it does not report any lens type, but it does
correctly report the focal length. The Nikon software and Lightroom
correctly reports both the lens type and focal length used for all of
my Nikkor lenses.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26641738
...So either the lens sends the wrong data, the camera writes the
wrong data when creating the file, or Lightroom misinterprets the
data. I didn't really care that Lightroom thought that the lens was a
Sigma 80-200mm, since it was the only Sigma lens that I had. It would
report that my 80-200mm lens was used at 280mm which is rather odd,
but at least it gave the correct focal length info.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

often discussed on dpreview. here's one thread:

No that is not what is discussed! Read more carefully.
Various software packages can't interpret what the data
is, and report the lens identity incorrectly. That is
not a Sigma problem, that is a problem with the software
package.

yet it only happens with sigma lenses.

in other threads, joe w. has explained in great detail about how sigma
puts the same rom in multiple lenses and that they misreport.

it's a well known issue.


http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26630814
Sigma 150-500 @ PMA question
...
2. When I imported my pictures into Lightroom, the lens shows up as
an 18-200 3.5.-5.6. My 150mm shots show as 18mm, and my 500mm
shots show as 200mm, and the 250mm as 52mm...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26639405
I haven't used the Sigma 150-500mm, but I did own and use a Sigma
100-300mm f4 EX DG lens. When using Lightroom, it incorrectly reports
this lens as a Sigma 80-200mm f2.8, but it does report the correct
focal length used in the image. Using other software (e.g., Nikon
Capture NX or View NX), it does not report any lens type, but it does
correctly report the focal length. The Nikon software and Lightroom
correctly reports both the lens type and focal length used for all of
my Nikkor lenses.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/26641738
...So either the lens sends the wrong data, the camera writes the
wrong data when creating the file, or Lightroom misinterprets the
data. I didn't really care that Lightroom thought that the lens was a
Sigma 80-200mm, since it was the only Sigma lens that I had. It would
report that my 80-200mm lens was used at 280mm which is rather odd,
but at least it gave the correct focal length info.

On 7/13/2016 1:47 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

often discussed on dpreview. here's one thread:

No that is not what is discussed! Read more carefully.
Various software packages can't interpret what the data
is, and report the lens identity incorrectly. That is
not a Sigma problem, that is a problem with the software
package.

The woman in the image below was shot with the Sigma 150-500, that I was
testing. It is a composite. While I am not certain which lens I used for
the background, I see no EXIF data in Bridge. IIRC I took other images
with that lens, and no EXIF data identifying the lens appeared. I don't
think I still have those images.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/Tough%20Lady.jpg



--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:


The woman in the image below was shot with the Sigma 150-500, that I was
testing. It is a composite. While I am not certain which lens I used for
the background, I see no EXIF data in Bridge. IIRC I took other images
with that lens, and no EXIF data identifying the lens appeared. I don't
think I still have those images.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/Tough%20Lady.jpg

relevant tags:

Lens Info : 16-35mm f/4
Lens Model : 16.0-35.0 mm f/4.0
Focal Length : 20.0 mm
Focal Length In 35mm Format : 20 mm


other info:

Camera Model Name : NIKON D800
Date/Time Original : 2013:11:17 10:14:24
Exposure Time : 1/30
F Number : 22.0
Exposure Program : Aperture-priority AE
ISO : 400
Exposure Compensation : -2/3
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : Normal

On 7/13/2016 6:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


The woman in the image below was shot with the Sigma 150-500, that I was
testing. It is a composite. While I am not certain which lens I used for
the background, I see no EXIF data in Bridge. IIRC I took other images
with that lens, and no EXIF data identifying the lens appeared. I don't
think I still have those images.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/Tough%20Lady.jpg

relevant tags:

Lens Info : 16-35mm f/4
Lens Model : 16.0-35.0 mm f/4.0
Focal Length : 20.0 mm
Focal Length In 35mm Format : 20 mm


other info:

Camera Model Name : NIKON D800
Date/Time Original : 2013:11:17 10:14:24
Exposure Time : 1/30
F Number : 22.0
Exposure Program : Aperture-priority AE
ISO : 400
Exposure Compensation : -2/3
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : Normal


OK You identified the data for one of the composite layers. It makes
sense that I would have used the 16-35. But, we have no info on the
other layer, which was shot with the Sigma 150-500.


--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

OK You identified the data for one of the composite layers. It makes
sense that I would have used the 16-35. But, we have no info on the
other layer, which was shot with the Sigma 150-500.

exif data doesn't list every single lens used in a composite.

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

sigma is well known for reusing rom chips among their lenses, resulting
in lenses reporting as a different lens or sometimes reporting totally
invalid data.

Never heard of that.

often discussed on dpreview. here's one thread:

No that is not what is discussed! Read more carefully.
Various software packages can't interpret what the data
is, and report the lens identity incorrectly. That is
not a Sigma problem, that is a problem with the software
package.

Have to agree with that. In particular I have a sigma 70mm f2.8 macro which
is said to be an EF50 f2.5 Compact macro by both Digikam and Flickr but is
reported correctly in Darktable. If one software package can read and
display the correct information the others must be making it up as they go
along.

That lens is quite an old one, my relatively new 150-600 is reported
correctly in all software I have tried.

--
sid