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  #351  
Old June 6th 17, 09:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
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Posts: 1,692
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:31:39 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

Bill W wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:36:35 -0800,
(Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

Bill W wrote:

I knew several people in the telecom industry in Chicago, and they
were in the industry for at least 40 years at various companies. The
business and residential repair sides *never* mixed.

That is true in the respect that Sales and Marketing
both would have a very clearly defined separation.

Plant Operation does not have the same schism, there is
only one line of command from the VP of Operations, down
through various Managers and Line Supervisors to the
technicians. The same techs fix problems on all
services. They typically did have compartmentalization
though, but it was a Data Shop, a Switch Tech, a Carrier
Tech, a Radio Tech, and Testboard Techs that worked
Inside Plant, while Outside Plant was pretty much a
single group (the guys with a truck... who climbed
poles), though there might be a distinction between
people who install new circuits and those who do
repair work.

You just don't see those distinction from outside the
industy, and the only normal contact any customer has is
with Sales or Marketing. They never talk to Operations
unless they are also a telecom company.


I don't really understand what you're saying. People who call support
for repair services are outside the industry, and they call separate
numbers depending on whether they are business or residential. Those
departments are completely separate, and no techs work in both.


No technicians work in either! Techs work in Plant Operations.


I'm talking about repair technicians. They work in repair - either the
business or residential side.

The
reason for all this should be obvious: when a business goes down, it
costs them money, sometimes a great deal of money. When a residence
goes down, it's merely an inconvenience. Business repairs are much
quicker, and that has always been my experience as a customer on both
ends. In fact, when talking to a Cox cable technician recently, he
told me exactly the same thing - completely separate departments, and
all techs worked in one or the other.


Business phones are not more important than the residential phones that
call them.


But they are far more important to the user, and the business side
demands, and gets, faster service.

The Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) has always
worked on the basis of universal service. There is no point unless
there is a phone under ever rock and hung on every tree. Each of them
is just as important to the overall result as any of the others.


But again, I am talking about larger cities with larger providers.


It works exactly the same. Seattle, or Podunk Hollar.


I'm, starting to wonder if we are talking about two different things.
It cannot work the same in a very small town. As an extreme example,
if there is one tech, he obviously must do both business and
residential.
  #352  
Old June 7th 17, 12:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

Bill W wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:31:39 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying. People who call support
for repair services are outside the industry, and they call separate
numbers depending on whether they are business or residential. Those
departments are completely separate, and no techs work in both.


No technicians work in either! Techs work in Plant Operations.


I'm talking about repair technicians. They work in repair - either the
business or residential side.


They DON'T. "Repair" technicians are part of Operations. A totally
separate entity from either Sales or Marketing. Operations, unlike
Sales and Marketing, is not divided between business and residential.

Business phones are not more important than the residential phones that
call them.


But they are far more important to the user, and the business side
demands, and gets, faster service.


That is simply not true in the way you are claiming!
The two sides are equally important to each other,
because a Business line that is not used due to lack of
customers with service is worthless.

The Business services do in fact get "faster service",
but not for repair. They get a great deal more
attention from Sales and Marketing. The Sales people
are simply phenomenal when it comes to rattling off all
the variations and knowing which might help any given
customer. For a typical technician it is mind boggling.

The Marketing people are equally fantastic at
understanding the usefulness of the latest technologies.
Technology has been moving very fast for decades now,
and Operations people are typically 15 years behind!
Marketing people are thinking 5 years ahead. Again, it
is mind boggling.

But make no mistake, there are zero "repair technicians"
in either Sales or Marketing. None. Not one. Worse
yet, it is generally true that very few Sales or
Marketing people ever so much as speak to anyone in
Operations. Oddly that is extremely true in the
mid-levels, while a few lower level people may have
Operations friends from previous jobs. At the high end
the VP's do communicate. That can be interesting though
as many an Operations VP is consider a pure dolt by
Marketing, and they are not wrong either.

I'm, starting to wonder if we are talking about two different things.
It cannot work the same in a very small town. As an extreme example,
if there is one tech, he obviously must do both business and
residential.


How many techs do you think ATT has in the entire
Pacific North West?

How many companies are there that operate totally "in a
very small town" at all? Small town telco's are not
small town businesses, they are owned and operated by
national companies with many branch offices, but the
Sales and Marketing departments are not functional at
those branch levels, they are consolidated in some large
city. And that is equally true of Operations. There
generally is no one solitary tech that services one
solitary small office! That has other significance you
might not have realized too...

In the time frame from 1978 through about 2000 the
entire industry went from totally analog to totally
digital. The driving force was the cost of labor,
spelled "Technician". Once they paired that down, it
was "Windshield Wiper Time" for the few remaining
technicians. The effect was that all work at any location
was scheduled for when a technician would be on location.
And all equipment that had high maintenance was replaced
with new technology that didn't (even if it did).

The classic example was Northern Telecom's marketing of
their DMS digital switching systems in the 1980's. They
were forbidden to say anything to a customer that even
hinted that it ever required maintenance. For example,
NTI would not discuss connecting computers to their
switching systems, at all. No analysis that appeared to
be connected to maintenance. Of course they did some of
that analysis in the switch, which is a monster
computer, but they would not talk about it with their
customers.

By 1975 both ATT and NTI had designed digital switches,
but they both had to use an analog (relay) switching
network. The difference was that NTI's CEO saw the
future and demanded that theirs be built plug compatible
with what a digital network fabric would be when the
technology was available, switching the digital stream
rather than an analog stream. ATT build theirs
compatible with their existing switching fabric. And
when the digital switch fabric was available, in 1977-8
NTI dropped it into their DMS line of switches and
started advertising maintenance free switches. ATT had
to totally redesign their entire switching architecture.

NTI grabbed a whopping 40% of the non ATT market!

Small places with high labor costs rapidly moved to all
digital switching, almost all using NTI switching.
Alaska, with the highest labor cost (I'm a very
expensive technician) was number 1 in the country, and
was nearly all digital by perhaps 1985 when the rest of
the country was about 33 percent digital. Places with a
Right To Work Law and low wages were the slowest and
didn't come around until the late 1990's.

Nobody has separate maintenance crews for business and
residential. The equipment is not different, the
duplicating the administrative cost, not to mention the
Windshield Wiper Time, is prohibitive.

--
Floyd L. Davidson
http://www.apaflo.com/
Utqiagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #353  
Old June 7th 17, 12:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:05:23 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 6/6/2017 1:16 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

When systems go down, business phones get priority in repair.(at least
in theory.)

Go to an appropriate source, and look up the difference between theory
an practice. Here on the Isle of Long, when power goes out, power
restoration is prioritized, in theory.

everything is prioritized. to not do so is foolish.

From that last statement, we can conclude that according to nospam,
nobody is foolish.


you certainly are.


yep! Trying to have a rational discussion with you, certainly is.


I guess that's why you weren't. :-)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #354  
Old June 7th 17, 12:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 12:11:56 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


it also has absolutely nothing whatso****ingever to do with qualcomm's
absurd pricing, which you even agree is *illegal*.

I've done no such thing.

yes you did, stating that it's well established case law to not charge
higher prices for the same part.

I can't find where I said that. I don't think I said that.

you did, when i mentioned sandisk charging more for the *same* memory
card if it goes into a top of the line slr versus a p&s.


It still doesn't ring a bell. I've gone hunting and I found where you
wrote and I replied as follows:

imagine if sandisk charged a higher price for the exact same memory
card if it were to be used it in a high end nikon slr versus a
coolpix.


The memory card is the end product. This is well covered in law.


that's the one.

There are two aspects to this. First you can buy a license to use an
inventors technology. Second, the inventor can sell a finished
product. Nikon is not using Sandisk technology. Nikon is buying a
finished product from Sandisk which is using Sandisk's own technology.


apple, samsung, lg, motorola are buying a finished product from
qualcomm, that being a baseband modem chip.


And Qualcomm is free to sell it on whatever FRAND conditions it likes.

When Sandisk sells its own product it doesn't require the purchaser to
license the technology. But if the XYZ Battery Co wanted to use
Sandisk technology in its own batteries, it would have to pay Sandisk
a license fee.


absolutely, however, that fee would not depend on whether the battery
is used in a $1 flashlight or a $1000 electronic flash or a $100,000
car.


Nor, in the Qualcomm case, does the fee depend on whether the iPhone
is used by a destitute drunk or Bill Gates. You have gone a step too
far up the chain with your analogy.

But I never said "it's well established case law to not charge higher
prices for the same part." A seller can and does charge what he likes.


except when it's frand patents, and when they have a monopoly on it.


They especially can when they have a monopoly. All FRAND licensing
does is to require that the inventor charges the same license fee for
everyone. Most of the argument is about whether Qualcomm is complying
with the Fair and Reasonable bit.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #355  
Old June 7th 17, 01:01 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:



There are two aspects to this. First you can buy a license to use an
inventors technology. Second, the inventor can sell a finished
product. Nikon is not using Sandisk technology. Nikon is buying a
finished product from Sandisk which is using Sandisk's own technology.


apple, samsung, lg, motorola are buying a finished product from
qualcomm, that being a baseband modem chip.


And Qualcomm is free to sell it on whatever FRAND conditions it likes.


no

When Sandisk sells its own product it doesn't require the purchaser to
license the technology. But if the XYZ Battery Co wanted to use
Sandisk technology in its own batteries, it would have to pay Sandisk
a license fee.


absolutely, however, that fee would not depend on whether the battery
is used in a $1 flashlight or a $1000 electronic flash or a $100,000
car.


Nor, in the Qualcomm case, does the fee depend on whether the iPhone
is used by a destitute drunk or Bill Gates. You have gone a step too
far up the chain with your analogy.


it's not who uses it, but what else goes into it.

samsung pays more for the same modem chip when they put it into a
galaxy s8 versus a flipper.

But I never said "it's well established case law to not charge higher
prices for the same part." A seller can and does charge what he likes.


except when it's frand patents, and when they have a monopoly on it.


They especially can when they have a monopoly. All FRAND licensing
does is to require that the inventor charges the same license fee for
everyone. Most of the argument is about whether Qualcomm is complying
with the Fair and Reasonable bit.


they're not charging the same fee, even to the same buyer. that's one
of the problems.
  #356  
Old June 7th 17, 02:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:26:16 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

Bill W wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:31:39 -0800,
(Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying. People who call support
for repair services are outside the industry, and they call separate
numbers depending on whether they are business or residential. Those
departments are completely separate, and no techs work in both.

No technicians work in either! Techs work in Plant Operations.


I'm talking about repair technicians. They work in repair - either the
business or residential side.


They DON'T. "Repair" technicians are part of Operations. A totally
separate entity from either Sales or Marketing. Operations, unlike
Sales and Marketing, is not divided between business and residential.


But that makes zero difference. Within Operations, there is repair.
Within repair, there is business, and there is residential. I know
this for a fact, and it's all I'm trying to say. You really seem to be
talking about a single entity, but I'm not. Let's take CenturyLink. If
there is a phone or DSL system failure at a residence, they will "try
to get someone out tomorrow, but it might be the next day". With a
business phone outage, they are going there as quickly as possible.
Some businesses are simply *out* of business with a phone failure, and
they are not going to wait until the next day, or whenever. Someone is
going to fix their phones NOW.

Business phones are not more important than the residential phones that
call them.


But they are far more important to the user, and the business side
demands, and gets, faster service.


That is simply not true in the way you are claiming!
The two sides are equally important to each other,
because a Business line that is not used due to lack of
customers with service is worthless.


Again, we must be talking about two different things based on my above
example.

The Business services do in fact get "faster service",
but not for repair. They get a great deal more
attention from Sales and Marketing. The Sales people
are simply phenomenal when it comes to rattling off all
the variations and knowing which might help any given
customer. For a typical technician it is mind boggling.


*Everyone* gets rapid service if they are a potential customer, not
just business customers.

The Marketing people are equally fantastic at
understanding the usefulness of the latest technologies.
Technology has been moving very fast for decades now,
and Operations people are typically 15 years behind!


This makes zero sense. The technical folks, the repair folks, they
absolutely *must* be up on the latest tech, or what good is it?
Someone has to make it work, and it's not going to be the sales
people.

Marketing people are thinking 5 years ahead. Again, it
is mind boggling.


But my broken phone line is not from the future. Marketing people are
useless to customers who need repair, and repair is all that this
discussion is about.

But make no mistake, there are zero "repair technicians"
in either Sales or Marketing. None. Not one.


Well of course not.

Worse
yet, it is generally true that very few Sales or
Marketing people ever so much as speak to anyone in
Operations. Oddly that is extremely true in the
mid-levels, while a few lower level people may have
Operations friends from previous jobs. At the high end
the VP's do communicate. That can be interesting though
as many an Operations VP is consider a pure dolt by
Marketing, and they are not wrong either.

I'm, starting to wonder if we are talking about two different things.
It cannot work the same in a very small town. As an extreme example,
if there is one tech, he obviously must do both business and
residential.


How many techs do you think ATT has in the entire
Pacific North West?

How many companies are there that operate totally "in a
very small town" at all? Small town telco's are not
small town businesses, they are owned and operated by
national companies with many branch offices, but the
Sales and Marketing departments are not functional at
those branch levels, they are consolidated in some large
city. And that is equally true of Operations. There
generally is no one solitary tech that services one
solitary small office! That has other significance you
might not have realized too...


My example was intentionally extreme. The point is that what works in
Chicago will probably not work in a random, isolated, small town.

Nobody has separate maintenance crews for business and
residential.


Nearly everyone has separate repair crews. I have never heard of one
that does not. Like I said, all my friends who worked in telecom
repair for at least forty years always worked in either residential or
business, but *never* both at the same time. Never, and that includes
a variety of companies in Chicago.
  #357  
Old June 7th 17, 10:01 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

Bill W wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:26:16 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

Bill W wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:31:39 -0800,
(Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying. People who call support
for repair services are outside the industry, and they call separate
numbers depending on whether they are business or residential. Those
departments are completely separate, and no techs work in both.

No technicians work in either! Techs work in Plant Operations.

I'm talking about repair technicians. They work in repair - either the
business or residential side.


They DON'T. "Repair" technicians are part of Operations. A totally
separate entity from either Sales or Marketing. Operations, unlike
Sales and Marketing, is not divided between business and residential.


But that makes zero difference. Within Operations, there is repair.
Within repair, there is business, and there is residential. I know
this for a fact, and it's all I'm trying to say.


You think you know something. I am not guessing. There is no
division between residential and business within Operations (which
is repair). NONE.

You are confusing Sales and Marketing department distinctions with
Plant Operations. And from outside it would be very difficult
to know the differences. Typically customers don't even talk to
Plant Operations people. Most companies make that a very difficult
divide to cross...


You really seem to be

Nearly everyone has separate repair crews. I have never heard of one
that does not. Like I said, all my friends who worked in telecom
repair for at least forty years always worked in either residential or
business, but *never* both at the same time. Never, and that includes
a variety of companies in Chicago.


--
Floyd L. Davidson
http://www.apaflo.com/
Utqiagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #358  
Old June 9th 17, 11:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:51:03 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Qualcomm have the right to devise any pricing scheme they want to
license their technology. Apple has the choice to either pay or look
for other technology.


Yep. That's the way it works.


.... and this gives a clue as to why Qualcomm believes the use of their
technology is worth more than that of others:
https://www.investorvillage.com/smbd...g&mid=17244579
or http://tinyurl.com/y9k8rwm9
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #359  
Old June 9th 17, 11:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Qualcomm have the right to devise any pricing scheme they want to
license their technology. Apple has the choice to either pay or look
for other technology.


Yep. That's the way it works.


... and this gives a clue as to why Qualcomm believes the use of their
technology is worth more than that of others:


that isn't the issue.
  #360  
Old June 10th 17, 01:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Is Your Browser Color Managed?

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 18:51:46 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Qualcomm have the right to devise any pricing scheme they want to
license their technology. Apple has the choice to either pay or look
for other technology.

Yep. That's the way it works.


... and this gives a clue as to why Qualcomm believes the use of their
technology is worth more than that of others:


that isn't the issue.


Says who?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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