I've changed my mind about AA batteries.

Ed Mullikin wrote:
[]
I went out and bought a couple of spare lithium batteries when bought my
camera in January, 2004. I'm still using the original and
don't know for certain where the spares are. Wish I'd have been
smarter then.

Sounds like a good policy, if the camera and your usage could require more
than one battery per day. I /always/ want to have a spare battery with
me - just in case - and at least one of my cameras can use more than one
battery per day (at 500 shots / day, for example at a motor racing event).
I have tried to use all three batteries I bought, and to use them equally
in rotation. One is a Nikon original, and two 3rd party (Hahnel, IIRC),
and all give good service.

Cheers,
David

frederick wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:


That spare will still cost many times what a set of Eneloop (or
similar) batteries, and will you still be able to buy a battery for
that camera 10 years from now?

Does anyone seriously think that they'll still be wanting to use their
current camera in 10 years time?

Maybe, maybe not. Some of us aren't afflicted with 'keeping up with the
Jones's disease'.

Ed Mullikin wrote:

wrote in message
...

In the end the 40D won thanks to the 100-400L and Canon's recent
aggressive pricing. So the 40D was almost half the price of the D300,
leaving me plenty of cash free to buy spare batteries.

Fortunately the 40D has some very cheap and well regarded spares
available. So I bought three, just to make sure I'd have enough juice
for
a long day out.

You should of done some research before you bought spare Li-ion
batteries. They degrade from time of manufacturing, even without
being used.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

From the link: "Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later
use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock,
even if sold at clearance prices. "

I went out and bought a couple of spare lithium batteries when bought
my camera in January, 2004. I'm still using the original and don't know
for certain where the spares are. Wish I'd have been smarter then.

It probably doesn't matter as the spares are probably in the same
condition as your original, which is to say below 50% of original charge
capacity.

Ron Hunter wrote:

It probably doesn't matter as the spares are probably in the same
condition as your original, which is to say below 50% of original charge
capacity.

It depends on how the Li-Ion battery was used and stored.

If stored fully charged when not in use, it loses about 20% of its
capacity per year.

If stored partially charged when not in use, it loses about 4% of its
capacity per year.

frederick wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:


That spare will still cost many times what a set of Eneloop (or
similar) batteries, and will you still be able to buy a battery for
that camera 10 years from now?

Does anyone seriously think that they'll still be wanting to use their
current camera in 10 years time?

Maybe and here is why:

As the digital technology advances (just like in film) the advances will
be in smaller increments with very little innovation. Therefore the
useful life of each camera will stretch longer and longer.

Once a film camera had auto exposure, auto focusing and a few other
features there were only small advances in features so a camera 10 years
old did the job as well as one that was only a couple of years old.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:25:23 -0700, SMS
wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

It probably doesn't matter as the spares are probably in the same
condition as your original, which is to say below 50% of original charge
capacity.

It depends on how the Li-Ion battery was used and stored.

If stored fully charged when not in use, it loses about 20% of its
capacity per year.

If stored partially charged when not in use, it loses about 4% of its
capacity per year.

I seem to recall reading that Li-Ion are best stored in a fridge at
40% of full charge for maximum life.


--
AnthonyL

AnthonyL wrote:
On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:25:23 -0700, SMS
wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

It probably doesn't matter as the spares are probably in the same
condition as your original, which is to say below 50% of original charge
capacity.
It depends on how the Li-Ion battery was used and stored.

If stored fully charged when not in use, it loses about 20% of its
capacity per year.

If stored partially charged when not in use, it loses about 4% of its
capacity per year.

I seem to recall reading that Li-Ion are best stored in a fridge at
40% of full charge for maximum life.

Yes, this is correct.

measekite wrote:

Once a film camera had auto exposure, auto focusing and a few other
features there were only small advances in features so a camera 10 years
old did the job as well as one that was only a couple of years old.

It goes beyond that too, for non-SLRs. The increasing popularity of
digital SLRs for "serious" users, has resulted in a dearth of high-end
compacts, and a lot of decontenting. Look how Canon has wrecked the G
series.

Even in ultra-compacts, they increase the number of megapixels and the
screen size, but they defeature them in other ways.

For example, try to find an ultra-compact with these features:

1. Zoom lens with 28mm at the wide end
2. Optical viewfinder
3. SD card memory

There is one available, the Canon SD800 IS. It's probably one of the few
digital cameras that's been going _up_ in price.

If you drop the requirement for the SD card, then there's the new Sony
DSC-W170, which looks good, at least based on the specs.

? "Ron Hunter" ?????? ??? ??????
...
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
All my digital cameras until recently were AA for a combination of
convenience, interoperability, and the ability to use disposables in an
emergency. And, in general, I've been pleased with the AA performance.
However one slightly dodgy battery in a set of 4 can be hard to track
down, and the fairly rapid decay on NiMh can be annoying if you find
your
camera dead when you need it.

I have had great success with Hybrio batteries for my K100D DSLR, but
the
same batteries don't work in my Oly SP-550 for some reason. So I was
carrying different sets of AAs for different cameras, and the novelty
was
wearing off.

I recently decided to buy a new DSLR, and narrowed it down to the 40D or
D300... cameras with very different price tags, but very good AF
performance, which is what I wanted for use at airshows in particular.

AF for an airshow? Almost every picture at an airshow will have the
subject more than 50 feet away from the camera, which means you wouldn't
be using the AF at all, as the setting would be, basically 'infinity'
all the time. Just set the focus at infinity, and turn AF off. With no
AF working all the time, your lithium ion battery would last several
times as long.

In the end the 40D won thanks to the 100-400L and Canon's recent
aggressive pricing. So the 40D was almost half the price of the D300,
leaving me plenty of cash free to buy spare batteries.

Fortunately the 40D has some very cheap and well regarded spares
available. So I bought three, just to make sure I'd have enough juice
for
a long day out.

Now I'm not sure why I bothered. :-) The supplied battery is only on its
second charge, has already lasted through about 600 photographs, and
still shows as fully charged.

Ok, I wouldn't rely on the meter reading, but all the same, I'm really
impressed. So I apologise for being a doubting Thomas for so long! I
suppose I knew lithium batteries were vastly superior, it was always the
idea of being stuck far from a charger which bothered me. Now I'd just
stuff a spare in my pocket and not worry at all.


That spare will still cost many times what a set of Eneloop (or similar)
batteries, and will you still be able to buy a battery for that camera
10 years from now?


Andrew McP

PS I suppose to be fair the latest generation of cameras do seem to be
very good at saving energy. In the past there may have been more of a
case for sticking with AAs.

The issues of convenience and availability are still as important to me
as they have ever been.
I'm still waiting for a mobile phone with NiMH AAs and a maglite with a li
ion cell, but you can't have everything you want....
:-)


--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
? "Ron Hunter" ?????? ??? ??????
...
Andrew MacPherson wrote:
All my digital cameras until recently were AA for a combination of
convenience, interoperability, and the ability to use disposables in an
emergency. And, in general, I've been pleased with the AA performance.
However one slightly dodgy battery in a set of 4 can be hard to track
down, and the fairly rapid decay on NiMh can be annoying if you find
your
camera dead when you need it.

I have had great success with Hybrio batteries for my K100D DSLR, but
the
same batteries don't work in my Oly SP-550 for some reason. So I was
carrying different sets of AAs for different cameras, and the novelty
was
wearing off.

I recently decided to buy a new DSLR, and narrowed it down to the 40D or
D300... cameras with very different price tags, but very good AF
performance, which is what I wanted for use at airshows in particular.

AF for an airshow? Almost every picture at an airshow will have the
subject more than 50 feet away from the camera, which means you wouldn't
be using the AF at all, as the setting would be, basically 'infinity'
all the time. Just set the focus at infinity, and turn AF off. With no
AF working all the time, your lithium ion battery would last several
times as long.

In the end the 40D won thanks to the 100-400L and Canon's recent
aggressive pricing. So the 40D was almost half the price of the D300,
leaving me plenty of cash free to buy spare batteries.

Fortunately the 40D has some very cheap and well regarded spares
available. So I bought three, just to make sure I'd have enough juice
for
a long day out.

Now I'm not sure why I bothered. :-) The supplied battery is only on its
second charge, has already lasted through about 600 photographs, and
still shows as fully charged.

Ok, I wouldn't rely on the meter reading, but all the same, I'm really
impressed. So I apologise for being a doubting Thomas for so long! I
suppose I knew lithium batteries were vastly superior, it was always the
idea of being stuck far from a charger which bothered me. Now I'd just
stuff a spare in my pocket and not worry at all.

That spare will still cost many times what a set of Eneloop (or similar)
batteries, and will you still be able to buy a battery for that camera
10 years from now?


Andrew McP

PS I suppose to be fair the latest generation of cameras do seem to be
very good at saving energy. In the past there may have been more of a
case for sticking with AAs.
The issues of convenience and availability are still as important to me
as they have ever been.
I'm still waiting for a mobile phone with NiMH AAs and a maglite with a li
ion cell, but you can't have everything you want....
:-)


--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr



You could probably cobble up a cell phone with NIMH batteries, but it
would be rather large, and heavy by current standards.