"Exposing to the right" is over exposed, what now?

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

I set my exposure to slide the histogram to the right, without clipping
( when I have time), to capture the most tonal levels . So, now when I
am editing the photos they are over exposed(not clipped). A sunrise is
a good example. The deep colors are washed out. The obvious fix(to me
anyway) ...

.... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to expose
each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only applies
to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and shoot modes
of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in editing instead of
taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.

taylor aldler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

I set my exposure to slide the histogram to the right, without clipping
( when I have time), to capture the most tonal levels . So, now when I
am editing the photos they are over exposed(not clipped). A sunrise is
a good example. The deep colors are washed out. The obvious fix(to me
anyway) ...

... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to expose
each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only applies
to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and shoot modes
of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in editing instead of
taking photos the right way to begin with.

Why do you question a proven technique that lifts shadows into noise
free detail? Really, let people do their thing for their purposes ...
better than criticizing without showing your own prowess.

taylor aldler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

I set my exposure to slide the histogram to the right, without clipping
( when I have time), to capture the most tonal levels . So, now when I
am editing the photos they are over exposed(not clipped). A sunrise is
a good example. The deep colors are washed out. The obvious fix(to me
anyway) ...

... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to expose
each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only applies
to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and shoot modes
of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in editing instead of
taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.



This sounds like the P&S troll.

"Exposing for jpeg" which is what he proposes is NOT
the absolute best way to use a more capable camera like a dSLR.

That is, indeed, to expose for the highlights, putting them
just under the clipping value, and save as raw. Fix later
in the raw-jpeg conversion.

Doug

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:17:25 -0500, Doug McDonald wrote:

... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to
expose each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only
applies to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and
shoot modes of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in
editing instead of taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.

This sounds like the P&S troll.

"Exposing for jpeg" which is what he proposes is NOT the absolute best
way to use a more capable camera like a dSLR.

That is, indeed, to expose for the highlights, putting them just under
the clipping value, and save as raw. Fix later in the raw-jpeg
conversion.

Your method is not the absolute best way either. There is no absolute
best way.

--
Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com

Doug McDonald wrote:
taylor aldler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

I set my exposure to slide the histogram to the right, without clipping
( when I have time), to capture the most tonal levels . So, now when I
am editing the photos they are over exposed(not clipped). A sunrise is
a good example. The deep colors are washed out. The obvious fix(to me
anyway) ...

... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to expose
each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only applies
to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and shoot
modes
of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in editing instead of
taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.



This sounds like the P&S troll.

"Exposing for jpeg" which is what he proposes is NOT
the absolute best way to use a more capable camera like a dSLR.

That is, indeed, to expose for the highlights, putting them
just under the clipping value, and save as raw. Fix later
in the raw-jpeg conversion.

Actually do what you say on import of raw into the editor (say photoshop
ACR) and maintain it as 16 bit/colour for all edits before saving in any
other format, including JPG's.

Doug McDonald wrote:
taylor aldler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

I set my exposure to slide the histogram to the right, without clipping
( when I have time), to capture the most tonal levels . So, now when I
am editing the photos they are over exposed(not clipped). A sunrise is
a good example. The deep colors are washed out. The obvious fix(to me
anyway) ...

... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to expose
each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only applies
to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and shoot
modes
of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in editing instead of
taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.



This sounds like the P&S troll.

"Exposing for jpeg" which is what he proposes is NOT
the absolute best way to use a more capable camera like a dSLR.

That is, indeed, to expose for the highlights, putting them
just under the clipping value, and save as raw. Fix later
in the raw-jpeg conversion.

And by the way, allowing some highlights to clip (direct lighting, some
specular reflections) is quite alright, otherwise you'll push the middle
down into the shadows and increase noise.

This is where good spot metering skills come in.

Porte Rouge wrote:


Do you have more to say about which way you set exposure and when?
I am genuinely interested in how you decide to set exposure. At this
point I actually use both, "expose to the right" and light meter, for
the "fine art" shots. I can't see a difference, I was just curious in
a CD versus vinyl sort of way.


It is experience, about when it matters to get the highlights just exactly
"right", which does as someone mentioned including correctly clipping the
ultra bright things like specular reflections and lamps.

I am mainly concerned with clouds in landscapes. Clipping
those can lead to really bad results at times.

When the going gets tough in such cases (landscapes) the Photoshop
Highlight/shadow tool is the critical one. But it takes practice.

Doug McDonald

Porte Rouge wrote:

Do you have more to say about which way you set exposure and when?


One more thing about histograms in the camera: at least in Canons,
they are made from the in-camera jpeg! This means that to make them
useful, you have to set the camera to make jpegs using "faithful"
mode, and contrast set to -3 or -4. Even so, it is only approximate.
You also need to use the "flashing overload" indicator on the
camera review screen. If you set contrast to 0 or more (remember, this is Canon)
and trust the histogram, you will still lose dynamic range.

Experience.

Doug McDonald

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT), Porte Rouge
wrote:

On Oct 4, 11:39*am, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:17:25 -0500, Doug McDonald wrote:
... doesn't seem to be obvious to you. Instead of learning how to
expose each scene properly and not rely on dumbed-down point and shoot
snapshooter's suggestions (like "expose to the right", which only
applies to very few subjects) or depending on your automatic point and
shoot modes of your camera, you'll forever be wasting your time in
editing instead of taking photos the right way to begin with.

This is what you get for taking to heart the lame "one size fits all"
dumbed-down snapshooters suggestions made by all point 'n shooters and
armchair photographers on the net.

This sounds like the P&S troll.

"Exposing for jpeg" which is what he proposes is NOT the absolute best
way to use a more capable camera like a dSLR.

That is, indeed, to expose for the highlights, putting them just under
the clipping value, and save as raw. Fix later in the raw-jpeg
conversion.

Your method is not the absolute best way either. There is no absolute
best way.

--
Regards, Robert * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *http://www.arumes.com

Do you have more to say about which way you set exposure and when?
I am genuinely interested in how you decide to set exposure. At this
point I actually use both, "expose to the right" and light meter, for
the "fine art" shots. I can't see a difference, I was just curious in
a CD versus vinyl sort of way.

Porte

There IS NO ONE RIGHT WAY. Not even a cut 'n dried dozen right ways. Each
and every photograph requires a unique way to expose it properly. No
automated metering system in the world will ever get it right for you.
Unless you are like most people, a point 'n shooter, wanting some tech-head
in a computer lab trying to decide your exposures for you the rest of your
life. The metering recommendation designed and programmed by someone who's
never taken one photo in their life. Or even worse, if you depend on the
advice of all those armchair photographers that infest the net and
newsgroups. Those desperately pretending to be photographers, laughing to
themselves when they find out they managed to convince someone to do as
they told you to do, never having held even one camera in their own
lifetime. And you all fall for it like the fools that you are.

This is why I find a live-view display (EVF or LCD) so valuable today. I
can instantly see that I have to lower the exposure of a sunrise or sunset
by as much as 2.5-3.0 EV stops to properly capture the intense colors and
dramatic cloud contrasts. I can instantly see why I have to overexpose the
scene on the water by up to 1.5 EV steps or more and let all those
highlights on the water go out completely. I can instantly see that in
order to capture the moon's features while it's rising above that mountain
peak that I'll have to underexpose by 4 or more stops, ambient light
depending.

If you are depending on your metering system, depending on some lame-assed
one-size-fits-all amateur's recommendation of "always expose to the right",
and all the other inane nonsense of theirs, it will only keep you glued to
your editor trying to desperately repair what you failed to do right in the
first place. Never getting it quite right in editing, ever, no matter what
you do. RAW file or not. I shoot with RAW files and I NEVER use that lame
beginner snapshooter's recommendation of "expose to the right".

Photography (digital especially) may be greatly depending on science, but
it is all art. 100% art. There's no one right color of oil-paints, no one
right medium, no one right brush, no one right way to create a
brush-stroke. ...

Get your heads out of your collective tech-head's asses.