Bulk Film Loader ?

Hi, group!

I have another question...

I recently got the idea in my head to develop my own B&W at home - I'm an
advanced amateur - and this thinking led me to the idea of buying film in
bulk rolls and winding them myself onto cassettes.

When I crunched the numbers, I saw that a bulk roll would translate to
twenty 36-exposure rolls at around $2-2.50 per roll, with a savings of about
$4-6 over buying individual rolls. Moreover, to my delight, I also
discovered that the BFL would pay for itself through the money saved over
the course of 5-10 "homewound" rolls, depending on the particular BFL I buy.
(I would recover the money invested in the BFL even sooner if I were to buy
a used model.) Incidentally, my calculations were based on the prices posted
on B&H's website.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?

Thank you.

Dieter Zakas

I recently got the idea in my head to develop my own B&W at home - I'm an
advanced amateur - and this thinking led me to the idea of buying film in
bulk rolls and winding them myself onto cassettes.

When I crunched the numbers, I saw that a bulk roll would translate to
twenty 36-exposure rolls at around $2-2.50 per roll, with a savings of
about
$4-6 over buying individual rolls. Moreover, to my delight, I also
discovered that the BFL would pay for itself through the money saved over
the course of 5-10 "homewound" rolls, depending on the particular BFL I
buy.
(I would recover the money invested in the BFL even sooner if I were to
buy
a used model.) Incidentally, my calculations were based on the prices
posted
on B&H's website.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not
having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?


In dem good old days this was a bit more practical. IIRC a 36 exposure roll
was 3 feet. you counted off the clicks as you wound up the roll with the
crank handle, and/or watched the counter.

the problem with your figures is that you can't get bags, boxes, huge piles
of empty cassettes free anymore from your friendly local labs. The
cassettes used are like soda cans, they pop open and are not reusable.

those cassettes are good for a few uses but dirt and dust builds up on the
felt light trap. all you need is a good series ruined by a scratch that
runs from one end to the other to kill your idea. The Peter Principle (or
whatever) states that a disaster like that will happen to that once in a
lifetime shot.

so you'd have to figure on buying a half dozen new cassettes with each 100
foot roll, or risk a gouge problem, or see if any odd film brands still use
those snap on end caps that you can reload, if they have some in color you
could shoot a few rolls of it between your mono film binges.

this reply is echoed to the z-prophoto mailing list at yahoogroups.com

I recently got the idea in my head to develop my own B&W at home - I'm an
advanced amateur - and this thinking led me to the idea of buying film in
bulk rolls and winding them myself onto cassettes.

When I crunched the numbers, I saw that a bulk roll would translate to
twenty 36-exposure rolls at around $2-2.50 per roll, with a savings of
about
$4-6 over buying individual rolls. Moreover, to my delight, I also
discovered that the BFL would pay for itself through the money saved over
the course of 5-10 "homewound" rolls, depending on the particular BFL I
buy.
(I would recover the money invested in the BFL even sooner if I were to
buy
a used model.) Incidentally, my calculations were based on the prices
posted
on B&H's website.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not
having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?


In dem good old days this was a bit more practical. IIRC a 36 exposure roll
was 3 feet. you counted off the clicks as you wound up the roll with the
crank handle, and/or watched the counter.

the problem with your figures is that you can't get bags, boxes, huge piles
of empty cassettes free anymore from your friendly local labs. The
cassettes used are like soda cans, they pop open and are not reusable.

those cassettes are good for a few uses but dirt and dust builds up on the
felt light trap. all you need is a good series ruined by a scratch that
runs from one end to the other to kill your idea. The Peter Principle (or
whatever) states that a disaster like that will happen to that once in a
lifetime shot.

so you'd have to figure on buying a half dozen new cassettes with each 100
foot roll, or risk a gouge problem, or see if any odd film brands still use
those snap on end caps that you can reload, if they have some in color you
could shoot a few rolls of it between your mono film binges.

this reply is echoed to the z-prophoto mailing list at yahoogroups.com

Dieter Zakas wrote:


Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?

Yes, most bulk loaders have a device that makes a sharp click for each
frame, linked to a sprocket wheel so you get the correct number of
sprocket holes rather than an imprecise count of turns on the spool
(which takes up more film per turn as the diameter increases with film
being wound on), as well as an actual counter dial that advances one
frame for each click; some just count the clicks, but I like to use the
dial (reset to zero at the start of each roll). However, you'll get
more like 18 rolls of 36 (as opposed to 20), because you have to "waste"
about six frames per roll to get 36 good frames -- you need to allow for
about 2 frames at the tail that get fogged in loading, and another 3-4
for the leader. That changes the economics. In your favor, however,
you can generally reuse the cassettes a number of times.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dieter Zakas wrote:


Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?

Yes, most bulk loaders have a device that makes a sharp click for each
frame, linked to a sprocket wheel so you get the correct number of
sprocket holes rather than an imprecise count of turns on the spool
(which takes up more film per turn as the diameter increases with film
being wound on), as well as an actual counter dial that advances one
frame for each click; some just count the clicks, but I like to use the
dial (reset to zero at the start of each roll). However, you'll get
more like 18 rolls of 36 (as opposed to 20), because you have to "waste"
about six frames per roll to get 36 good frames -- you need to allow for
about 2 frames at the tail that get fogged in loading, and another 3-4
for the leader. That changes the economics. In your favor, however,
you can generally reuse the cassettes a number of times.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dieter Zakas wrote:


Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?

Yes, most bulk loaders have a device that makes a sharp click for each
frame, linked to a sprocket wheel so you get the correct number of
sprocket holes rather than an imprecise count of turns on the spool
(which takes up more film per turn as the diameter increases with film
being wound on), as well as an actual counter dial that advances one
frame for each click; some just count the clicks, but I like to use the
dial (reset to zero at the start of each roll). However, you'll get
more like 18 rolls of 36 (as opposed to 20), because you have to "waste"
about six frames per roll to get 36 good frames -- you need to allow for
about 2 frames at the tail that get fogged in loading, and another 3-4
for the leader. That changes the economics. In your favor, however,
you can generally reuse the cassettes a number of times.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

In article ,
wrote:

What B&W film are you using for which you're currently paying $6-8/roll?

That's about the standard price for a roll of film outside of the U.S.

However I found that I could get a 20% discount buying 5 rolls of film.
But for black and white, I often just go diving in the out of date film
bins. There the film is about $2 a roll and I always find something
interesting.

I recently was offered some "short" long rolls (metric equivalent of 50 feet)
of Ilford Pan-F (now discontinued) from a photgrapher that was going out
of business. I would have loved to keep them in the freezer and roll off
one or two rolls in 10 years but then I would be better off with individual
rolls.

I also was afraid that the day would come and I would take a roll
out of the freezer, warm it up, split it into 36 exposure rolls only to
find that it spent a few months in the guy's car at 110F and was worthless.

Like the friend that served at a special occasion a 25 year old bottle of
white wine. Red wine ages white wine sours. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel

IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838

In article ,
wrote:

What B&W film are you using for which you're currently paying $6-8/roll?

That's about the standard price for a roll of film outside of the U.S.

However I found that I could get a 20% discount buying 5 rolls of film.
But for black and white, I often just go diving in the out of date film
bins. There the film is about $2 a roll and I always find something
interesting.

I recently was offered some "short" long rolls (metric equivalent of 50 feet)
of Ilford Pan-F (now discontinued) from a photgrapher that was going out
of business. I would have loved to keep them in the freezer and roll off
one or two rolls in 10 years but then I would be better off with individual
rolls.

I also was afraid that the day would come and I would take a roll
out of the freezer, warm it up, split it into 36 exposure rolls only to
find that it spent a few months in the guy's car at 110F and was worthless.

Like the friend that served at a special occasion a 25 year old bottle of
white wine. Red wine ages white wine sours. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel

IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:17:56 GMT, Dieter Zakas
wrote:

Hi, group!

I have another question...

I recently got the idea in my head to develop my own B&W at home - I'm an
advanced amateur - and this thinking led me to the idea of buying film in
bulk rolls and winding them myself onto cassettes.

When I crunched the numbers, I saw that a bulk roll would translate to
twenty 36-exposure rolls at around $2-2.50 per roll, with a savings of about
$4-6 over buying individual rolls. Moreover, to my delight, I also
discovered that the BFL would pay for itself through the money saved over
the course of 5-10 "homewound" rolls, depending on the particular BFL I buy.
(I would recover the money invested in the BFL even sooner if I were to buy
a used model.) Incidentally, my calculations were based on the prices posted
on B&H's website.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?


I use an "Alden 74" Daylight bulk loader. You load the loader in the
dark. I only lose about 1 to 2 frames on the tail which can't reach
the exposure window any way, and three on the tongue.

I get very close to 20, 36 exposure rolls. I also load Ektachrome, or
Fuji ASA 100 and 400. This cuts the cost of transparencies to well
less than half of the regular cost.

Ever since I received 6 rolls back from Kodak that had been
contaminated in developing I much prefer to do my own with the 3 step
process rather than Kodak's umpteen step process. Those 6 rolls were
from the big fly-in at Oshkosh and the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

The old Jobo process would do a roll of color negs in 3 minutes flat.

Now days, any film I shoot stays as negatives , or transparencies and
ends up in sleeves in a notebook after scanning into the computer.

I do find that the E-6 films seem to be much more rugged mechanically
than the B & W films. I find that the emulsion appears to be more
fragile on the B & W.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Thank you.

Dieter Zakas

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:17:56 GMT, Dieter Zakas
wrote:

Hi, group!

I have another question...

I recently got the idea in my head to develop my own B&W at home - I'm an
advanced amateur - and this thinking led me to the idea of buying film in
bulk rolls and winding them myself onto cassettes.

When I crunched the numbers, I saw that a bulk roll would translate to
twenty 36-exposure rolls at around $2-2.50 per roll, with a savings of about
$4-6 over buying individual rolls. Moreover, to my delight, I also
discovered that the BFL would pay for itself through the money saved over
the course of 5-10 "homewound" rolls, depending on the particular BFL I buy.
(I would recover the money invested in the BFL even sooner if I were to buy
a used model.) Incidentally, my calculations were based on the prices posted
on B&H's website.

Anyway, while thinking about this, I got to thinking about BFLs. Not having
any experience with them, is there some kind of counter to determine how
much film has been wound into a cassette to comprise, say, a 24-, 36- or
"other quantity"-exposure roll?


I use an "Alden 74" Daylight bulk loader. You load the loader in the
dark. I only lose about 1 to 2 frames on the tail which can't reach
the exposure window any way, and three on the tongue.

I get very close to 20, 36 exposure rolls. I also load Ektachrome, or
Fuji ASA 100 and 400. This cuts the cost of transparencies to well
less than half of the regular cost.

Ever since I received 6 rolls back from Kodak that had been
contaminated in developing I much prefer to do my own with the 3 step
process rather than Kodak's umpteen step process. Those 6 rolls were
from the big fly-in at Oshkosh and the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

The old Jobo process would do a roll of color negs in 3 minutes flat.

Now days, any film I shoot stays as negatives , or transparencies and
ends up in sleeves in a notebook after scanning into the computer.

I do find that the E-6 films seem to be much more rugged mechanically
than the B & W films. I find that the emulsion appears to be more
fragile on the B & W.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Thank you.

Dieter Zakas