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Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 14th 08, 02:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Podge
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Posts: 79
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing

I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few
pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess
politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during
take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a dedicated still digital
camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me to turn it off. About 10
minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we were able to turn on our
"electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before landing, while still over
the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned off again. The only
worthwhile photography from this flight was during the first and last 5
minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other flights that I
have been on.

Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and
landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this
fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of digital
still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of view, does
anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with an aircraft's
navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious with regard to
the use of digital cameras and camcorders?

About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still
camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of
interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed
during the last 5 years?

Podge

  #2  
Old January 14th 08, 03:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Pete D
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Posts: 2,613
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing


"Podge" wrote in message ...
I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few
pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air
hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not
permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a
dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me
to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we
were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before
landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned
off again. The only worthwhile photography from this flight was during the
first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other
flights that I have been on.

Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and
landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this
fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of
digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of
view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with
an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious
with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders?

About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still
camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of
interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed
during the last 5 years?

Podge



I am really doubtful there would ever actually be a problem but just in case
there might be I personally am prepared to comply with the wishes of the
crew "just in case".


  #3  
Old January 14th 08, 03:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Mark Robinson
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Posts: 10
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding

Podge wrote:
I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a
few pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air
hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not
permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a
dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked
me to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of
sight, we were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10
minutes before landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices
had to be turned off again. The only worthwhile photography from this
flight was during the first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this
would apply to many other flights that I have been on.

Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs
and landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered
this fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of
digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of
view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with
an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too
cautious with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders?

About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital
still camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports
then of interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has
changed during the last 5 years?


Any digital device can easily interfere with avionic systems.

They all contain square wave clock oscillators and logic circuits which produce
broadband radio noise which can easily land on critical frequencies for things
like precision approach, radar or communications systems.

Analogue radio equipment can also interfere unintentionally but this is much
less likely as the oscillators generate sine waves and thus only produce
signals on one frequency at a time. Purely analogue electronic devices are
getting pretty rare these days.
  #4  
Old January 14th 08, 03:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Mark B.
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Posts: 334
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing

"Podge" wrote in message ...
I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few
pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air
hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not
permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a
dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me
to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we
were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before
landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned
off again. The only worthwhile photography from this flight was during the
first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other
flights that I have been on.

Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and
landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this
fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of
digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of
view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with
an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious
with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders?

About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still
camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of
interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed
during the last 5 years?

Podge



Guess you haven't taken any flights for a while. Airline security has
changed drastically over the last several years, including turning off all
electronic deviced during takeoff & landings. Even something so harmless as
a PDA, which I usually have with me to read e-books during a flight. Most
PDAs have wireless connections built-in now, but years ago when I started
using one there was no such thing - didn't matter, it still had to be off
except while the aircraft was at cruising altitude.

Mark


  #5  
Old January 14th 08, 04:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Podge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing


"Mark B." wrote in message
. ..

Guess you haven't taken any flights for a while. Airline security has
changed drastically over the last several years, including turning off all
electronic deviced during takeoff & landings. Even something so harmless
as a PDA, which I usually have with me to read e-books during a flight.
Most PDAs have wireless connections built-in now, but years ago when I
started using one there was no such thing - didn't matter, it still had to
be off except while the aircraft was at cruising altitude.


Well then, how do professional photographers get their city aerial pics? Do
they have to especially hire aircraft for this purpose?

If you used an old film-type still camera, I wonder if these would be banned
also? I can understand that laptop computers, GPS units and other radio
transmitting devices could cause problems, but I am a bit surprised to find
that a tiny digital still camera could be a problem!

I would have thought that interference from strong (and perhaps unshielded)
ground-based radio signals would be just as much a problem to an aircraft
that is coming in to land as the interference that a tiny digital camera
could produce? I wonder if any scientific tests have been done on
interference from digital cameras, or whether it's simply easier to ban all
electronic devices?

Podge


  #6  
Old January 14th 08, 04:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Podge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing


"Paul Saccani" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:42:25 +1300, "Podge" wrote:

About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still
camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of
interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed
during the last 5 years?


Confirmed cases of interference by such devices, including replication
under test conditions.
--
Cheers
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.


Are there any internet web sites which would give details of these cases,
particularly with regard to electrical interference produced by tiny digital
still cameras?

  #7  
Old January 14th 08, 04:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Tony Cooper
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Posts: 4,748
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:42:25 +1300, "Podge" wrote:

I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few
pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air hostess
politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not permitted during
take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a dedicated still digital
camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me to turn it off. About 10
minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we were able to turn on our
"electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before landing, while still over
the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned off again. The only
worthwhile photography from this flight was during the first and last 5
minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other flights that I
have been on.

Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and
landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this
fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of digital
still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of view, does
anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with an aircraft's
navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious with regard to
the use of digital cameras and camcorders?


I think there are some considerations you haven't thought about.

I don't know what the air hostess to passenger ratio was, but we
can't expect the air hostesses to have the time to check out each
passenger's device to see if it's something that is, or is not, within
the rules. In that brief time that you were stopped from using your
device, she had to monitor several passengers and conduct her other
duties. It makes their job easier to just say "no devices".

Also, there's the security consideration of allowing images to be
taken of ground facilities. Perhaps we're more conscious of this in
the US, but the idea of people being able to photograph airport ground
facilities is not acceptable here.

It may be that the possible interference in the aircraft's systems is
not the reason for the ban at all. It's a plausible excuse that
passengers are more likely to accept because they don't know anything
about the aircraft's system.




--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #8  
Old January 14th 08, 04:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital, nz.general, aus.aviation
[email protected]
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Posts: 182
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off orLanding

On Jan 13, 8:53*pm, "Mark B." wrote:
"Podge" wrote in ...
I was on an Air New Zealand flight a while ago, and I started to take a few
pics (from my digital still camera) as the aircraft took off. An air
hostess politely told me that the use of electronic devices was not
permitted during take-offs or landings. I told her that I was using a
dedicated still digital camera and not a camcorder, but she still asked me
to turn it off. About 10 minutes later, when land was well out of sight, we
were able to turn on our "electronic devices". But about 10 minutes before
landing, while still over the sea, all electronic devices had to be turned
off again. The only worthwhile photography from this flight was during the
first and last 5 minutes of the flight, and this would apply to many other
flights that I have been on.


Now I know that the use of camcorders has been banned during take-offs and
landings, but I didn't know that digital still cameras now suffered this
fate. My digital camera can't take movies, but I know that a lot of
digital still cameras can also take movies. From a practical point of
view, does anyone know whether digital cameras really CAN interfere with
an aircraft's navigation systems? Are airlines being a little too cautious
with regard to the use of digital cameras and camcorders?


About 5 years ago, nobody cared when I used my camcorder or digital still
camera during take-offs or landings, and there were no reports then of
interference with the aircrafts' navigation systems! So what has changed
during the last 5 years?


Podge


Guess you haven't taken any flights for a while. *Airline security has
changed drastically over the last several years, including turning off all
electronic deviced during takeoff & landings. *Even something so harmless as
a PDA, which I usually have with me to read e-books during a flight. *Most
PDAs have wireless connections built-in now, but years ago when I started
using one there was no such thing - didn't matter, it still had to be off
except while the aircraft was at cruising altitude.

Mark


I took digital photos from aircrafts during take off and landing many
times, a while ago or just recently (last year). We still have not
been explained technically regarding positive proof of such
interferences. When you fly in third world countries in the past, they
have concerns that you take photos (even using the old conventional
cameras) from the air (perhaps due sensitive installation, sites,
etc). However, perhaps the practice is now starting to spread over the
liberal, democratic countries as well.

On similar view, do you recall that you cannot use a cell phone inside
a hospital, as it may interfere with EKG equipment, etc. Ironically,
my experience in one of the hospital in South east Asia was that
everyone in the hospital (including the interns and doctors) were all
using cell phones. Then, last month we all heard about the news that
revealed 10 common myths that people is still being forced to believe.
The report indicated that the chance of interference is very small.
However, it is strange that only perhaps 2 out of every 5 news media
actually discussed about this particular issue (cell phone in
hospital). The other 3 out of the 5 seems to push the news under the
rug. Why? You can perhaps google it under the news and see who
reported it and who did not.

Wouldn't this all cover under "who is and who wants to be in
control?". Sure, if you fly, they prefer you to be in chains and
naked . That way it is 100% sure that you will not affect
anything..... or perhaps telepathy would still even be a concern in
this case ?
  #9  
Old January 14th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
Podge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing


"tony cooper" wrote in message
...

I think there are some considerations you haven't thought about.

I don't know what the air hostess to passenger ratio was, but we
can't expect the air hostesses to have the time to check out each
passenger's device to see if it's something that is, or is not, within
the rules. In that brief time that you were stopped from using your
device, she had to monitor several passengers and conduct her other
duties. It makes their job easier to just say "no devices".

Also, there's the security consideration of allowing images to be
taken of ground facilities. Perhaps we're more conscious of this in
the US, but the idea of people being able to photograph airport ground
facilities is not acceptable here.

It may be that the possible interference in the aircraft's systems is
not the reason for the ban at all. It's a plausible excuse that
passengers are more likely to accept because they don't know anything
about the aircraft's system.

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida


Good points, but I think if someone really wanted to take movies from a
departing aircraft, they could easily conceal a tiny video camera. We see a
few TV clips these days where people were filmed by miniature hidden
cameras. In addition, you can often see amazing detail from images on Google
earth, so I think it might be quite difficult to stop people getting images
of airport ground facilities?

  #10  
Old January 14th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,nz.general,aus.aviation
John Navas[_2_]
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Posts: 3,956
Default Digital Photography On Aircraft Not Permitted on Take Off or Landing

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:08:46 +1300, "Podge" wrote in
:


"Mark B." wrote in message
...

Guess you haven't taken any flights for a while. Airline security has
changed drastically over the last several years, including turning off all
electronic deviced during takeoff & landings. Even something so harmless
as a PDA, which I usually have with me to read e-books during a flight.
Most PDAs have wireless connections built-in now, but years ago when I
started using one there was no such thing - didn't matter, it still had to
be off except while the aircraft was at cruising altitude.


Well then, how do professional photographers get their city aerial pics? Do
they have to especially hire aircraft for this purpose?


Yes.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 




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