Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?

In article ,
nospam wrote:

I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB.

that's not what it said.

this is what it said:
[Ctein replies: Greg, as I understand this (from Dave Polaschek),
it's not an Epson thing but a Windows thing. The chunk of Windows
code that the Epson driver talks to to print only supports sRGB. So,
it might get better in future versions of Windows.]

later:
[Ctein replies: Ferdinand, thanks for that report. OK, so there may
be ways to get out of sRGB space when printing under Windows. Charles
made that observation earlier in the comments, too. So noted.]

See

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...t/windows-prin
t-
path-overview
or http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and
https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path

It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to
run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things):

"Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits
per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support
of transparency and gradients."

it's catching up to mac os.

The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from
Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are
jumping...

I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to (GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard
drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. Got
it for notes and some specific logins mostly though...
--
teleportation kills

In article ,
nospam wrote:

I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB.

that's not what it said.

this is what it said:
[Ctein replies: Greg, as I understand this (from Dave Polaschek),
it's not an Epson thing but a Windows thing. The chunk of Windows
code that the Epson driver talks to to print only supports sRGB. So,
it might get better in future versions of Windows.]

later:
[Ctein replies: Ferdinand, thanks for that report. OK, so there may
be ways to get out of sRGB space when printing under Windows. Charles
made that observation earlier in the comments, too. So noted.]

See

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...t/windows-prin
t-
path-overview
or http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and
https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path

It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to
run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things):

"Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits
per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support
of transparency and gradients."

it's catching up to mac os.

The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from
Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are
jumping...

I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard
drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. Got
it for notes and some specific logins mostly though...
--
teleportation kills

On 2017-01-23 03:10:44 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:08:51 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-01-22 23:35:34 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 20:48:49 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 19:33:40 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-01-22 03:06:53 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 18:21:01 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-01-22 01:05:47 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:18:29 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

--- snip ---

If not how are you supposed to apply paper/printer specific icc profiles?

I don't know how this gets on with non-Epson papers but I now
understand what Epson is doing with their own papers.

When you construct a print from RGB colors you have access only to
colors within the three-pointed three-color RGB triangle. This is fine
for an RGB printer but Epson has far more colors than this available.
Basically, they have colours which can be generated from within an
eight-pointed eight-colour polygon. LR and PS know nothing about these
which is why Epson says 'leave it to the printer'. I posted an article
about this when I first got the P800 and the results can be
astonishing.

I've just downloaded an uptodate driver and Epson seems to have
slightly changed their tune. Meantime the following article throws an
interesting light on the subject.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...0-printer.html
or

http://tinyurl.com/gkwaar4

I

will return with more information if I find any.

That was very interesting especially when it came to the color
management question. It seems that he got better results with printer
management with MacOS, though he hedged by saying there were times that
better results could be obtained by using computer control and matched
profiles. Also that with MacOS he was able to obtain a wide gamut with
printer management. What was interesting was that with Windows and
printer color management there was no wider gamut available than sRGB,
so for Windows users he recommends using software color management with
appropriate profiles.

I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB.

He didn't say that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB, he said that
the P800 managing color under Windows had no wider gamut than sRGB. To
get a wider gamut under Windows, color management should be handled by
sofware not the printer.


See
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-path-overview
or

http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and
https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path

It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to
run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things):

"Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits
per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support
of transparency and gradients."

My current experience on this Mac with the R2880 is, my best, and most
consistant results come with assigning color management to LR or PS
with a matched profile, so I am not going to fix things which ain't
broke.

The bottom line, it seems to me is that for that reviewer, the P800
produces perceptibly better prints than the Rx880 printers, but those
differences are subtle. Both you and he seem to be very happy with the
performance of the P800, and that is a good thing.
For now my R2880 has not faltered, and the P800 or P600 are going to be
worthy replacements when my workhorse R2880 is put out to pasture.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article , PeterN
wrote:

My daughter who uses a PC, and is a creative director, uses Windows
7 at
home and a Mac in her office, has no graphics issues. And since she
works from home several days a week, she regularly transfers files
between her two machines.

Does she use 4k screens?


No. Very little of her work is for print.

Then I don't think this relates to the possible problems of using 4k
screens. Does it?


It certainly does, as collaboration is a big factor.

collaboration has nothing to do with using a 4k display.

Also, I should have mentioned that the amount of her work for printing
is sold by her agent. Her share ranges from $50 for an 8x10 up to $750.
The agent charges a lot more as the agent needs a profit. My daughter
really doesn't care what the agent's share is.

even more irrelevant.


Right. Processing for print is irrelevant.

It is for 4k screens.

Are you saying that editing using a 4k screen will give a different
print image, than edits made when using a different screen, all other
things being equal?

whoooooooosh!

In article , android
wrote:


The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from
Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are
jumping...

no and no.

the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip
delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist.

I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard
drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves.

it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd
and 16 gig memory.

Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though...

that's overkill.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 22:16:26 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 1/22/2017 10:12 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:11:19 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 1/22/2017 1:37 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


I would be very skeptical about claims that one needs Windows 10 to
handle 4k displays, because that is managed by the graphics card, and
all that is required is a driver compatible with an older version of
Windows. Such things do exist; there are many for Windows Vista and
7, for example.

it may be possible if you hunt for the appropriate drivers and any
other support software that may be needed, but that's a hassle and not
everyone will bother (or even know where to look).

with win10, support is built in, so other than the occasional edge
case, it will work out of the box.

Windows 10 is *not* required for 4K displays.

i didn't say win10 was required. i said it works out of the box without
any fuss.

Since this is not an
OS-level issue,

it absolutely is an os issue. without os level support, it's *not*
going to work unless the app explicitly supports it, which is not
likely.

most people who have done graphics using a PC will not
find it difficult to get the requisite drivers for their specific
graphics card.

some might not, but most will since most users are *not* geeks,
particularly those who do graphics for a living.



My daughter who uses a PC, and is a creative director, uses Windows 7 at
home and a Mac in her office, has no graphics issues. And since she
works from home several days a week, she regularly transfers files
between her two machines.

Does she use 4k screens?


No. Very little of her work is for print.

Then I don't think this relates to the possible problems of using 4k
screens. Does it?


It certainly does, as collaboration is a big factor.

collaboration has nothing to do with using a 4k display.

Also, I should have mentioned that the amount of her work for printing
is sold by her agent. Her share ranges from $50 for an 8x10 up to $750.
The agent charges a lot more as the agent needs a profit. My daughter
really doesn't care what the agent's share is.

even more irrelevant.


Right. Processing for print is irrelevant.

It is for 4k screens.


Are you saying that editing using a 4k screen will give a different
print image, than edits made when using a different screen, all other
things being equal?

I was saying that the problems of displaying images on 4k screens are
quite independent of what you are doing with the images. Sharing files
between home and office will not affect the problems of displaying
images on 4k screens. What happens in the graphics engine of your
image processing software and the print process is not affected by the
kind of screen you are using.

I originally was saying that sharing files between home and office (or
any two computers) is a change of topic from that of the problems of
displaying images on a 4k screen. In other words a comment about
sharing files between home and office is a non sequitur to the topic
of displaying images on a 4k screen.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:39:25 +0100, android wrote:

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 18:49:55 +0100, android wrote:

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

For the last several years I have relied on an (almost) matched pairs
of Dell 2410 monitors - and now one has died. Not really surprising,
considering it was +8 years old, but it was a bloody good monitor. I
am now faced with the task of replacing it.

I don't want to just replace it as it would amount to no more than
installing 8 year old technology and I have been frantically beating
around the bush trying to decide what to do. I am considering all
kinds of options but I don't want to go into them now. One possibility
which is raising sweat to my brow is the use of a high gamut monitor
such as the Dell Ultrasharp 25 UP2516D
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...h-premiercolor
-up
2516d/apd/210-agjq/monitors-monitor-accessories
or http://tinyurl.com/hdpepts

My reading on the subject suggests that monitors such as this can have
problems with non-color-managed applications such as many that can be
found on the Internet and can also create problems when editing images
in all kinds of software. I would like to know if anyone has had any
experience with such monitors and what their comments may be. Should I
consider them and, if so, with what caveats in mind?

I have an US and is reluctant to get another. Got you plleeeease test
this one for me?

http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/r...dobe-rgb-monit
or/

Sorree - out of my price range. :-(

This one then?

https://www.inet.se/produkt/2200043/benq-24-bl2420u#specs

That's a better price but I don't particularly want 4k and it's only
sRGB when I want AdobeRgb as well. Besides, I,e already bought a Dell
UP2516D.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

nospam Wrote in message:
In article , android
wrote:


The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from
Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are
jumping...

no and no.

the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip
delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist.

I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard
drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves.

it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd
and 16 gig memory.

'couse not, but I had the disk in a drawer and with 8GB RAM it
rarely touches the virtual...

Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though...

that's overkill.
--
Bats can't tell us apart!


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:39:25 +0100, android wrote:

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 18:49:55 +0100, android wrote:

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

For the last several years I have relied on an (almost) matched pairs
of Dell 2410 monitors - and now one has died. Not really surprising,
considering it was +8 years old, but it was a bloody good monitor. I
am now faced with the task of replacing it.

I don't want to just replace it as it would amount to no more than
installing 8 year old technology and I have been frantically beating
around the bush trying to decide what to do. I am considering all
kinds of options but I don't want to go into them now. One possibility
which is raising sweat to my brow is the use of a high gamut monitor
such as the Dell Ultrasharp 25 UP2516D
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...with-premierco
lor
-up
2516d/apd/210-agjq/monitors-monitor-accessories
or http://tinyurl.com/hdpepts

My reading on the subject suggests that monitors such as this can have
problems with non-color-managed applications such as many that can be
found on the Internet and can also create problems when editing images
in all kinds of software. I would like to know if anyone has had any
experience with such monitors and what their comments may be. Should I
consider them and, if so, with what caveats in mind?

I have an US and is reluctant to get another. Got you plleeeease test
this one for me?

http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/r...h-adobe-rgb-mo
nit
or/

Sorree - out of my price range. :-(

This one then?

https://www.inet.se/produkt/2200043/benq-24-bl2420u#specs

That's a better price but I don't particularly want 4k and it's only
sRGB when I want AdobeRgb as well. Besides, I,e already bought a Dell
UP2516D.

Happy adjustments then! Send us a report after easter... :-))
--
teleportation kills

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 23 January 2017 22:12:17 UTC, android wrote:
nospam Wrote in message:
In article , android
wrote:


The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from
Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are
jumping...

no and no.

the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip
delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist.

I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard
drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves.

it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd
and 16 gig memory.

'couse not, but I had the disk in a drawer and with 8GB RAM it
rarely touches the virtual...

The draw is a strange place to keep such things that should be put into use
as soon as they are purchased, I have a dozen or so 1MB SIMMS from a macplus
somewhere, think I have a handful 256KB SIMMS too I'm keeping them for a
fine art project :-)

I have a Classic that still goes dong in the basement, well it did the
last time booted it and plan to make it a command line auxiliary to my
personal intranet after my flat has been zeroed. (New kitchen bathroom
undsoweiter.) A process that should have been completed last year or
something... I'm a keeper! :-)
--
teleportation kills