Does any other program (windows or linux) do screenshot annotationefficiently?

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:13:04 +0100, Danny D. wrote
(in article ):

Here is a WINDOWS example: (using Paint.NET)
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12745022.gif

Here is a LINUX example: (using Kolourpaint)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12745771.png

In summary, what is required for efficiency is:
a) arrowing (should be two clicks plus bending to avoid obstacles)
b) texting (should be a single click and then you start typing)
c) circling (should be as simple two clicks)

Personally I'd take a different approach, namely:

(a) paste each screenshot into a larger canvas

(b) use the empty margins for the textual annotations

(c) use straight lines, with or without arrowheads and boxes or circles, to
link each annotation to the relevant sections of the screenshot.

Any general comments would go underneath the screenshot.

This should give a much clearer, cleaner presentation with no need for curved
and over-under arrows or for putting text on the screenshot itself.

Just my thoughts as someone who, I confess, has only ever annotated
screenshots very quickly and crudely. Feel free to curse me as a fool for
not actually answering your questions.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:00:27 +0100 one wrote:

Personally I'd take a different approach, namely:
No approach is wrong.

(a) paste each screenshot into a larger canvas
(b) use the empty margins for the textual annotations

This is a fine approach. In fact, my recent example on a.h.r
(alt.home.repair) for cleaning toilet bowls with pool acid used
a larger canvas, with a white background, just as you suggest:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12756361.png

(c) use straight lines, with or without arrowheads and boxes or circles, to
link each annotation to the relevant sections of the screenshot.

Straight lines are fine; but sometimes a curved line will avoid
obstacles and provide a more seamless integration. Any good
screenshot editor will allow both - plus - Paint.NET allows
dashed arrows, various arrowheads, double-headed arrows, etc.

Any general comments would go underneath the screenshot.

I agree it is especially useful to grow the canvas of the screenshot
in order to edit below (or to the right). I had not mentioned this
as a requirement simply because most photo editors already grow
the canvas reasonably easily. For example, in Kolourpaint on Linux,
you just grab the sides and expand, and the canvas automatically
grows. You contract the canvas the same way. Very efficient.

Best freeware arrows on Windows: Paint.NET (far better than all the others)
Best freeware arrows on Linux: Kolourpaint (just so so ... nothing special)
Best freeware arrows on Mac: Preview? (but does it text & circle?)

You haven't googled for linux image annotate yet, have you? If you
had, you'd have run across shutter. I don't know if it has curved
arrows, as I've not tried it, but it sounds good.

nb

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:50:47 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

I agree it is especially useful to grow the canvas of the screenshot
in order to edit below (or to the right). I had not mentioned this
as a requirement simply because most photo editors already grow
the canvas reasonably easily. For example, in Kolourpaint on Linux,
you just grab the sides and expand, and the canvas automatically
grows. You contract the canvas the same way. Very efficient.

One point to make though, even though all programs can grow
the canvas, is that it's generally done in one of two ways.

1. You accurately specify the size & shape to grow (down to the pixel);
2. Or, you simply stretch & contract the canvass as needed.

Most freeware uses the first method, e.g., The GIMP, as shown below
(which is instantly accurate, but time consuming since you often
have to size & resize the canvas by trial and error):
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12756530.png

However, I prefer the elegant simplicity of the second method,
as shown below using KolourPaint on Linux:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12756637.png

As always, the goal is to get the job done in the most efficient
manner possible. Otherwise, you won't bother with the screenshot.

You'll notice, for example, VERY FEW people bother to screenshot
what they doing. I do it all the time. Why? Because it's so efficient
for me - that it only takes a few seconds.

If everyone screenshotted like I do, the USENET would be even more
useful than what it is today. All it takes is the right freeware.

On 2013-04-22, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:31:54 +0200 Rikishi42 wrote:

I find that Irfanview does those tasks rather wall,
actually. What do you find wrong with it ?

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear that Irfanview is a great program.

Irfanview is the best freeware out there for some thing:
- It's fast -- really really fast!
- It crops efficiently -- almost perfectly (it just needs ratioing)
- It converts to most other formats nicely
- It gives Windows users batch rotation & resizing & renaming
etc.

Well, cropping, resizing and converting are the main uses I have for it, so
I'm mostly satisfied with it.


But, if you've ever used Irfanviews' "Paint Dialog" to edit out
your name and other information from a screenshot, you'll want to
pull your hair out in frustration (as compared to, say, the ease
of performing those same tasks in Linux Kolourpaint).

Not something I often have a need for. Been there, done that, and it's not
it's main feature. :-)


And, if you've ever tried to draw arrows in Irfanview, for screenshot
annotation, you're crazy (once you see how well Windows Paint.NET does
arrows).

Well, I'm crazy. Or not just very demanding. I sometimes do that with
Irfanview, and the result may not be very nice, but it's good enough for me.


And, IIRC, Irfanview requires you to have to draw a bounding box just
to type simple text (although, if Irfanview did arrowing and editing
better, I'd probably settle for the way it does text as I already
settled for the bounding-box method on Linux 'cuz I can't find any
freeware on Linux that does texting efficiently).

I've allways regretted not having a Linux version of Irfanview. But hey,
that's what virtual machines and office Windows laptops are for !


--
When in doubt, use brute force.
-- Ken Thompson

On 2013-04-22 08:52:46 -0700, Savageduck said:

On 2013-04-22 08:26:04 -0700, "Danny D." said:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:39:45 -0700 Savageduck wrote:

As far as a technically free (it is part of the Mac OS bundle)
application I use for simple annotation, including arrows, is "Preview".
So I can do stuff like this.
http://db.tt/TvLjnQMr

I was on Linux when I saw this, so, I had the best of the worst
for arrows - but sometimes it's nice to have curved arrows as
shown here for your photo.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/.../12755909.jpeg

Does this Macintosh application curve them?

No. It is only intended for making on the fly simple annotations.

With Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator, where you have several ways of
going about dealing with this sort of thing using text layers and
vector graphics all sorts of stuff is possible. Unfortunately you are
only seeking free solutions in the Linux World, so there is little
point in going further. However, it might be worthwhile for you to
check "Inkscape".
http://inkscape.org/

NOTE: The Windows Paint.NET arrows are vastly superior to what I drew
just now with Kolourpaint on Linux - but the point is the same.

BTW: here are a couple of curved arrows, a circle and some text done in
Photoshop on to of what has become my annotation demo.
http://db.tt/Q5JNM5Fz


--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Q: Does any other freeware program do screenshot annotation efficiently?

While almost all programs perform almost all tasks, the three
critical screenshot annotation tasks that are often implemented
inefficiently a
a) arrowing (should be as simple as click + click + bend ... you're done)
b) texting (should be as simple as click + type ... you're done)
c) circling (should be as simple as click + sweep + click ... you're done)

Other annotation-critical tasks (which most programs do well) a
d) cropping (should be as simple as click + click ... you're done)
e) converting (should be as simple as file-save as ... you're done)

Programs on windows that fail the simple annotation triad test a
- IrfanView, GIMP, MSPaint, Photo!Editor, FastOne, & SketchUP

Programs on linux that fail the simple annotation triad test a
- GIMP, Inkscape, ImageMagick, F-Spot, Viewnior, Krita, Xfig,
- Xara Xtreme, Xpaint, Shutter, Solang, Fotoxx, & Kolourpaint

The only program on Windows that passes that simple test is
Paint.NET; while no program passes that test, unfortunately,
on Linux.

Here is a WINDOWS example: (using Paint.NET)
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12745022.gif

Here is a LINUX example: (using Kolourpaint)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12745771.png

In summary, what is required for efficiency is:
a) arrowing (should be two clicks plus bending to avoid obstacles)
b) texting (should be a single click and then you start typing)
c) circling (should be as simple two clicks)

Amazing as it may sound, out of the score of freeware image
editors listed above, only one performs all three tasks efficiently.

QUESTION:
Do you know of any other freeware image editor that can perform
those three critical screenshot-editing tasks efficiently?


look for last freeware edition of FastStone Capture

"Danny D." wrote:

And, if you've ever tried to draw arrows in Irfanview, for screenshot
annotation, you're crazy (once you see how well Windows Paint.NET does
arrows).

And, IIRC, Irfanview requires you to have to draw a bounding box just
to type simple text

If you use the Irfanview Paint plugin to do text you don't need to select
an area first, you just click where you want the text and a text box pops
up to enter the text. Only downside is it's a bit more clunky than the text
appearing directly on the picture as you type.

The only trouble with arrows in Irfanview is you can't reposition them
except by hitting undo and trying again, having moveable arrows would
require them to be stored as separate objects, but Irfanview works directly
with the pixels, it doesn't do objects or layers, for that you need a
proper drawing program. I use Photoshop when I want to be able to
reposition lines, re-edit text, etc., but overall Irfanview is fine for
most of the simple image editing and annotating I want to do.

On 04/21/2013 02:20 PM, Jennifer Murphy wrote:
....
It seems to me that you have spent an enormous amount of time testing
"free" software, without, apparently, any regard to the cost of your
time. Is it worthless? I don't understand the fixation of things that
are "free"? I believe the old adage that "there is no such thing as a
free lunch".
....

Doesn't commercial software require the same amount of reading reviews
and testing?

There are a few commercial products that are so well established
(Windows, Office, Photoshop, Acrobat, Flash, etc.) that you may not need
to test them, but there are a lot of freeware programs in that category
too (Linux, Apache, OpenOffice/LibreOffice, MySQL, Python, Perl, Java,
Emacs, vim, etc. For image viewing or editing IrfanView [viewing] and
the GIMP [editing] have been around forever and are really good.)

Free has some financial benefits that go beyond initial purchase price,
including:

Put it on all of your computers at no extra charge.
Update to latest version at no extra charge.

If you have 3-4 computers in your household and new versions of the
software come out every 3-4 years, over 10 years, the cost advantages
add up.

I also like the security you get with open source programs. Security
holes get found and plugged. If you're running Linux, the security and
stability updates will happen automatically, not just for Linux itself,
but for all of your applications. On Windows, Microsoft will do that
for Microsoft's products, but for the rest you're dependent on whatever
update policies the vendor provides. Oftentimes you get very
inconvenient demands from 3 or 4 different programs that clamor for
separate updates - where Linux applies all of them automatically and at
once.

The authors of open source programs don't have the same motivation or
the same opportunity to bury spyware in their products. Even if they
wanted to they know that other programmers would spot it and blast them.

Besides the spyware issue, open source programs are often better behaved
with regard to not installing third party toolbars, not running
services, not grabbing file extension handlers without permission, not
putting stuff in the Windows registry that doesn't go away during an
uninstall, etc. I'm not saying that all commercial programs are
offenders in those areas, or that no open source programs are, but my
impression is that the track record for open source is better in these
areas.

And if you install a free program and two weeks later learn about a
better one, you're not out any money for the product you no longer want
to use.

Alan

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:24:19 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-04-22 08:52:46 -0700, Savageduck said:

On 2013-04-22 08:26:04 -0700, "Danny D." said:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:39:45 -0700 Savageduck wrote:

As far as a technically free (it is part of the Mac OS bundle)
application I use for simple annotation, including arrows, is "Preview".
So I can do stuff like this.
http://db.tt/TvLjnQMr

I was on Linux when I saw this, so, I had the best of the worst
for arrows - but sometimes it's nice to have curved arrows as
shown here for your photo.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/.../12755909.jpeg

Does this Macintosh application curve them?

No. It is only intended for making on the fly simple annotations.

With Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator, where you have several ways of
going about dealing with this sort of thing using text layers and
vector graphics all sorts of stuff is possible. Unfortunately you are
only seeking free solutions in the Linux World, so there is little
point in going further. However, it might be worthwhile for you to
check "Inkscape".
http://inkscape.org/

NOTE: The Windows Paint.NET arrows are vastly superior to what I drew
just now with Kolourpaint on Linux - but the point is the same.

BTW: here are a couple of curved arrows, a circle and some text done in
Photoshop on to of what has become my annotation demo.
http://db.tt/Q5JNM5Fz

Here is something is something as an annotation demo that I did a
couple of years ago.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../Cover%201.jpg
Warning: an A3 original.
I notice some of the thinner lines have suffered slightly in the
multiple translations from the original 'PSPImage' (or may be a form
of aliasing on my screen?)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens