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#161
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article ,
nospam wrote: I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB. that's not what it said. this is what it said: [Ctein replies: Greg, as I understand this (from Dave Polaschek), it's not an Epson thing but a Windows thing. The chunk of Windows code that the Epson driver talks to to print only supports sRGB. So, it might get better in future versions of Windows.] later: [Ctein replies: Ferdinand, thanks for that report. OK, so there may be ways to get out of sRGB space when printing under Windows. Charles made that observation earlier in the comments, too. So noted.] See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...t/windows-prin t- path-overview or http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things): "Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support of transparency and gradients." it's catching up to mac os. The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are jumping... I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to (GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though... -- teleportation kills |
#162
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article ,
nospam wrote: I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB. that's not what it said. this is what it said: [Ctein replies: Greg, as I understand this (from Dave Polaschek), it's not an Epson thing but a Windows thing. The chunk of Windows code that the Epson driver talks to to print only supports sRGB. So, it might get better in future versions of Windows.] later: [Ctein replies: Ferdinand, thanks for that report. OK, so there may be ways to get out of sRGB space when printing under Windows. Charles made that observation earlier in the comments, too. So noted.] See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...t/windows-prin t- path-overview or http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things): "Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support of transparency and gradients." it's catching up to mac os. The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are jumping... I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though... -- teleportation kills |
#163
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
On 2017-01-23 03:10:44 +0000, Eric Stevens said:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:08:51 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-01-22 23:35:34 +0000, Eric Stevens said: On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 20:48:49 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 19:33:40 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-01-22 03:06:53 +0000, Eric Stevens said: On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 18:21:01 -0800, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-01-22 01:05:47 +0000, Eric Stevens said: On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:18:29 -0800, Savageduck wrote: --- snip --- If not how are you supposed to apply paper/printer specific icc profiles? I don't know how this gets on with non-Epson papers but I now understand what Epson is doing with their own papers. When you construct a print from RGB colors you have access only to colors within the three-pointed three-color RGB triangle. This is fine for an RGB printer but Epson has far more colors than this available. Basically, they have colours which can be generated from within an eight-pointed eight-colour polygon. LR and PS know nothing about these which is why Epson says 'leave it to the printer'. I posted an article about this when I first got the P800 and the results can be astonishing. I've just downloaded an uptodate driver and Epson seems to have slightly changed their tune. Meantime the following article throws an interesting light on the subject. http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...0-printer.html or http://tinyurl.com/gkwaar4 I will return with more information if I find any. That was very interesting especially when it came to the color management question. It seems that he got better results with printer management with MacOS, though he hedged by saying there were times that better results could be obtained by using computer control and matched profiles. Also that with MacOS he was able to obtain a wide gamut with printer management. What was interesting was that with Windows and printer color management there was no wider gamut available than sRGB, so for Windows users he recommends using software color management with appropriate profiles. I don't think it's correct that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB. He didn't say that Windows has no wider gamut than sRGB, he said that the P800 managing color under Windows had no wider gamut than sRGB. To get a wider gamut under Windows, color management should be handled by sofware not the printer. See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-path-overview or http://tinyurl.com/zc46qky and https://www.google.co.nz/#q=windows+xps+print+path It looks as though Windows has introduced a new printing process to run alongside the old. The second cite says (among other things): "Native support of advanced color profiles, which include 32 bits per channel (bpc), CMYK, named-colors, n-inks, and native support of transparency and gradients." My current experience on this Mac with the R2880 is, my best, and most consistant results come with assigning color management to LR or PS with a matched profile, so I am not going to fix things which ain't broke. The bottom line, it seems to me is that for that reviewer, the P800 produces perceptibly better prints than the Rx880 printers, but those differences are subtle. Both you and he seem to be very happy with the performance of the P800, and that is a good thing. For now my R2880 has not faltered, and the P800 or P600 are going to be worthy replacements when my workhorse R2880 is put out to pasture. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#164
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article , PeterN
wrote: My daughter who uses a PC, and is a creative director, uses Windows 7 at home and a Mac in her office, has no graphics issues. And since she works from home several days a week, she regularly transfers files between her two machines. Does she use 4k screens? No. Very little of her work is for print. Then I don't think this relates to the possible problems of using 4k screens. Does it? It certainly does, as collaboration is a big factor. collaboration has nothing to do with using a 4k display. Also, I should have mentioned that the amount of her work for printing is sold by her agent. Her share ranges from $50 for an 8x10 up to $750. The agent charges a lot more as the agent needs a profit. My daughter really doesn't care what the agent's share is. even more irrelevant. Right. Processing for print is irrelevant. It is for 4k screens. Are you saying that editing using a 4k screen will give a different print image, than edits made when using a different screen, all other things being equal? whoooooooosh! |
#165
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article , android
wrote: The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are jumping... no and no. the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist. I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd and 16 gig memory. Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though... that's overkill. |
#166
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 22:16:26 -0500, PeterN
wrote: On 1/22/2017 10:12 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:11:19 -0500, PeterN wrote: On 1/22/2017 1:37 PM, nospam wrote: In article , PeterN wrote: I would be very skeptical about claims that one needs Windows 10 to handle 4k displays, because that is managed by the graphics card, and all that is required is a driver compatible with an older version of Windows. Such things do exist; there are many for Windows Vista and 7, for example. it may be possible if you hunt for the appropriate drivers and any other support software that may be needed, but that's a hassle and not everyone will bother (or even know where to look). with win10, support is built in, so other than the occasional edge case, it will work out of the box. Windows 10 is *not* required for 4K displays. i didn't say win10 was required. i said it works out of the box without any fuss. Since this is not an OS-level issue, it absolutely is an os issue. without os level support, it's *not* going to work unless the app explicitly supports it, which is not likely. most people who have done graphics using a PC will not find it difficult to get the requisite drivers for their specific graphics card. some might not, but most will since most users are *not* geeks, particularly those who do graphics for a living. My daughter who uses a PC, and is a creative director, uses Windows 7 at home and a Mac in her office, has no graphics issues. And since she works from home several days a week, she regularly transfers files between her two machines. Does she use 4k screens? No. Very little of her work is for print. Then I don't think this relates to the possible problems of using 4k screens. Does it? It certainly does, as collaboration is a big factor. collaboration has nothing to do with using a 4k display. Also, I should have mentioned that the amount of her work for printing is sold by her agent. Her share ranges from $50 for an 8x10 up to $750. The agent charges a lot more as the agent needs a profit. My daughter really doesn't care what the agent's share is. even more irrelevant. Right. Processing for print is irrelevant. It is for 4k screens. Are you saying that editing using a 4k screen will give a different print image, than edits made when using a different screen, all other things being equal? I was saying that the problems of displaying images on 4k screens are quite independent of what you are doing with the images. Sharing files between home and office will not affect the problems of displaying images on 4k screens. What happens in the graphics engine of your image processing software and the print process is not affected by the kind of screen you are using. I originally was saying that sharing files between home and office (or any two computers) is a change of topic from that of the problems of displaying images on a 4k screen. In other words a comment about sharing files between home and office is a non sequitur to the topic of displaying images on a 4k screen. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#167
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:39:25 +0100, android wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 18:49:55 +0100, android wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: For the last several years I have relied on an (almost) matched pairs of Dell 2410 monitors - and now one has died. Not really surprising, considering it was +8 years old, but it was a bloody good monitor. I am now faced with the task of replacing it. I don't want to just replace it as it would amount to no more than installing 8 year old technology and I have been frantically beating around the bush trying to decide what to do. I am considering all kinds of options but I don't want to go into them now. One possibility which is raising sweat to my brow is the use of a high gamut monitor such as the Dell Ultrasharp 25 UP2516D http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...h-premiercolor -up 2516d/apd/210-agjq/monitors-monitor-accessories or http://tinyurl.com/hdpepts My reading on the subject suggests that monitors such as this can have problems with non-color-managed applications such as many that can be found on the Internet and can also create problems when editing images in all kinds of software. I would like to know if anyone has had any experience with such monitors and what their comments may be. Should I consider them and, if so, with what caveats in mind? I have an US and is reluctant to get another. Got you plleeeease test this one for me? http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/r...dobe-rgb-monit or/ Sorree - out of my price range. :-( This one then? https://www.inet.se/produkt/2200043/benq-24-bl2420u#specs That's a better price but I don't particularly want 4k and it's only sRGB when I want AdobeRgb as well. Besides, I,e already bought a Dell UP2516D. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#168
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
nospam Wrote in message:
In article , android wrote: The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are jumping... no and no. the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist. I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd and 16 gig memory. 'couse not, but I had the disk in a drawer and with 8GB RAM it rarely touches the virtual... Got it for notes and some specific logins mostly though... that's overkill. -- Bats can't tell us apart! ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#169
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:39:25 +0100, android wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 18:49:55 +0100, android wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: For the last several years I have relied on an (almost) matched pairs of Dell 2410 monitors - and now one has died. Not really surprising, considering it was +8 years old, but it was a bloody good monitor. I am now faced with the task of replacing it. I don't want to just replace it as it would amount to no more than installing 8 year old technology and I have been frantically beating around the bush trying to decide what to do. I am considering all kinds of options but I don't want to go into them now. One possibility which is raising sweat to my brow is the use of a high gamut monitor such as the Dell Ultrasharp 25 UP2516D http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...with-premierco lor -up 2516d/apd/210-agjq/monitors-monitor-accessories or http://tinyurl.com/hdpepts My reading on the subject suggests that monitors such as this can have problems with non-color-managed applications such as many that can be found on the Internet and can also create problems when editing images in all kinds of software. I would like to know if anyone has had any experience with such monitors and what their comments may be. Should I consider them and, if so, with what caveats in mind? I have an US and is reluctant to get another. Got you plleeeease test this one for me? http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/r...h-adobe-rgb-mo nit or/ Sorree - out of my price range. :-( This one then? https://www.inet.se/produkt/2200043/benq-24-bl2420u#specs That's a better price but I don't particularly want 4k and it's only sRGB when I want AdobeRgb as well. Besides, I,e already bought a Dell UP2516D. Happy adjustments then! Send us a report after easter... :-)) -- teleportation kills |
#170
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Does anyone have experience of High Gamut monitors?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: On Monday, 23 January 2017 22:12:17 UTC, android wrote: nospam Wrote in message: In article , android wrote: The reluctance to present new Mac Pros shows lack of commitment from Apple for it desktop lineup as a whole. No wonder that people are jumping... no and no. the problem is that apple's hands are tied from intel's repeated chip delays. apple can't use what doesn't exist. I've upgrade my Acer notebook from 2 to 8GB RAM and a 7200 500GB hard drive with dedicated swap and scratch partitions and now it moves. it wont move anywhere near as fast as a new macbook with pci-e nvme ssd and 16 gig memory. 'couse not, but I had the disk in a drawer and with 8GB RAM it rarely touches the virtual... The draw is a strange place to keep such things that should be put into use as soon as they are purchased, I have a dozen or so 1MB SIMMS from a macplus somewhere, think I have a handful 256KB SIMMS too I'm keeping them for a fine art project :-) I have a Classic that still goes dong in the basement, well it did the last time booted it and plan to make it a command line auxiliary to my personal intranet after my flat has been zeroed. (New kitchen bathroom undsoweiter.) A process that should have been completed last year or something... I'm a keeper! :-) -- teleportation kills |
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