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#71
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
JC Dill wrote: A camera (any camera) has no way to know if what you are aiming it at is white, or black, or a mixed scene. The way a light meter works is to assume that the scene is mixed, and to pick shutter/aperture settings to properly render a mixed scene. If the scene is lighter or darker than "average" then it will be under or over exposed unless you use Exposure Compensation to inform the camera how to adjust the automatic exposure to properly render the scene. That's why a good camera has exposure compensation settings. EC is part of what makes the Rebel a better camera than a point-n-shoot camera. But it takes knowing what you are doing (e.g. being a photographer) to bring out the best in the camera. If you just want to be a shutterbug (point, click) instead of a photographer then you will waste most of the features of this camera and your photos will be no better than if you bought a point-n-shoot camera. Hm, can you (or somebody else) write more about this ? For example, I bought a P&S camera, Panasonic LX1. This camera has a capability for exposure compensation. It has different modes of light metering (spot, weighted etc). It allows exposure bracketing shooting. It seems to me that these are the same features which you say the DSLR has and which allow me to 'squeeze' a better picture. Are there any features which DSLR provides for better quality pictures and LX1 does not (apart from the fact that LX1 has a smaller sensor and thus worse quality at high sensitivities) ? Thanks. |
#72
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
minnesøtti wrote:
JC Dill wrote: snip That's why a good camera has exposure compensation settings. EC is part of what makes the Rebel a better camera than a point-n-shoot camera. But it takes knowing what you are doing (e.g. being a photographer) to bring out the best in the camera. If you just want to be a shutterbug (point, click) instead of a photographer then you will waste most of the features of this camera and your photos will be no better than if you bought a point-n-shoot camera. Hm, can you (or somebody else) write more about this ? For example, I bought a P&S camera, Panasonic LX1. This camera has a capability for exposure compensation. It has different modes of light metering (spot, weighted etc). It allows exposure bracketing shooting. It seems to me that these are the same features which you say the DSLR has and which allow me to 'squeeze' a better picture. Are there any features which DSLR provides for better quality pictures and LX1 does not (apart from the fact that LX1 has a smaller sensor and thus worse quality at high sensitivities) ? Thanks. Just the one: if you need or want a focal length beyond the LX1's range, you're stuck; dSLRs use subsitutable lenses, so you have a wider or longer choice. 'Welcome. -- Frank ess |
#73
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
JC Dill wrote:
On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: Thing of it is, he got *better* results with the point and shoot. I'm not so sure about that. He got *different* results. It could be that he gets better results (compared to his old camera) with the default settings on this camera in other situations. Every camera is different in how it interprets the light. expectations were there for DSLRs. How was the OP supposed to know that there's a learning curve to getting comparable results when starting with the Rebel(or any DSLR)? There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? Calling him juvenile over it is fairly condescending, imho, and doesn't really add to the topic. True, but now he's working on living up to the label rather than proving it wrong. :P P. jc |
#74
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
Dave Martindale wrote:
philippe writes: Thing of it is, he got *better* results with the point and shoot. expectations were there for DSLRs. How was the OP supposed to know that there's a learning curve to getting comparable results when starting with the Rebel(or any DSLR)? Isn't that true of just about any piece of technology? If you buy something simple, it has limitations, but it can perform very well over the narrower domain that it is asked to handle. If you select something more capable and sophisticated, it operates over a much larger domain and even if it has an "auto" mode that can make fewer assumptions. So there are many more opportunities to have something go wrong. You have more capability, but you also need to understand the tool better and provide more input yourself. For another photographic example, if you take your film or flash card to the local drugstore, you get whatever their automatic machine provides. Most of the time it may be very good, but you don't have control. If you go to a pro lab, you get more input into what is done, but they will also let you screw up more freely. If you do all your printing at home, you get even more control, but then you need to be a lot more knowledgeable about how to use that control. Another (perhaps silly) example: If you're building a mechanical device and you use only the parts you can find in a hardware store, they'll all fit together but you won't have much range of choice. If you order parts from an industrial supply place, you'll have a much better chance to get exactly what you want, but you have to know how to determine exactly what you want. If you buy a lathe and a milling machine, you can make *exactly* what you want, but be prepared to spend a few months making junk until you learn how to use it. So I expect more sophisticated cameras to require more knowledge to use well, not less. Don't you? Yes, but I've been surprised before, assuming that my 'current level of knowledge' at this or that technology would easily transfer to the next level. All I'm saying is that the OP's assumption is a natural one to make and we've all, at one point or another, done the same thing.. Just maybe not with photography, gauging on some of the answers I'm getting here.. P. Dave |
#75
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:16:16 GMT, philippe
wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? DSLR cameras have many semi-automatic settings and most have at least one "mostly automatic" setting. But it can't read minds. It can't know when the scene is mostly white or mostly black, or when a fast shutter or deep depth-of-field are called for. Learning to use a DSLR could be compared to learning to drive a manual shift sportscar when you only know how to drive an automatic sedan. In order to get the full benefit of the extra features of the sports car you need to learn more about how to drive. jc -- "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot of different horses without having to own that many." ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA |
#76
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
JC Dill wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:16:16 GMT, philippe wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? DSLR cameras have many semi-automatic settings and most have at least one "mostly automatic" setting. But it can't read minds. It can't know when the scene is mostly white or mostly black, or when a fast shutter or deep depth-of-field are called for. Learning to use a DSLR could be compared to learning to drive a manual shift sportscar when you only know how to drive an automatic sedan. In order to get the full benefit of the extra features of the sports car you need to learn more about how to drive. My daughter learned to drive in a '66 Lotus Elan, and she's an outstanding road and track driver. But not an outstanding photographer. What's my point? No point. I'm just saying. -- Frank ess |
#77
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
Frank ess wrote:
JC Dill wrote: On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:16:16 GMT, philippe wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? DSLR cameras have many semi-automatic settings and most have at least one "mostly automatic" setting. But it can't read minds. It can't know when the scene is mostly white or mostly black, or when a fast shutter or deep depth-of-field are called for. Learning to use a DSLR could be compared to learning to drive a manual shift sportscar when you only know how to drive an automatic sedan. In order to get the full benefit of the extra features of the sports car you need to learn more about how to drive. My daughter learned to drive in a '66 Lotus Elan, and she's an outstanding road and track driver. But not an outstanding photographer. What's my point? No point. I'm just saying. *very* cool... My daughter likes the lotus, but prefers Jaguar.. On X-box, that is.. P. |
#78
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
"Philippe" wrote in message
news:cR14h.59682$H7.39744@edtnps82... Frank ess wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:16:16 GMT, philippe wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? DSLR cameras have many semi-automatic settings and most have at least one "mostly automatic" setting. But it can't read minds. It can't know when the scene is mostly white or mostly black, or when a fast shutter or deep depth-of-field are called for. Learning to use a DSLR could be compared to learning to drive a manual shift sportscar when you only know how to drive an automatic sedan. In order to get the full benefit of the extra features of the sports car you need to learn more about how to drive. My daughter learned to drive in a '66 Lotus Elan, and she's an outstanding road and track driver. But not an outstanding photographer. What's my point? No point. I'm just saying. *very* cool... My daughter likes the lotus, but prefers Jaguar.. On X-box, that is.. P. Not that anyone cares, but... I bought my daughter an '88 Mustang convertible with stick (4-cylinder slug), to teach her how to drive "properly." After two fender-benders, we decided to put her in a point-and-shoot car (with automatic). The convertible became my spare, my first ragtop, and later gave way to a '93 GT convertible with auto. My purely fun car is another '93 Mustang 5.0 with stick, which I much prefer over the automatic. Bought that car new in 1993, and it's still with me - hopefully for a long, long time yet. Still, for the daily commute and rush-hour traffic, it's nice to have an automatic at hand. I use my Rebel XT almost exclusively on manual settings. It's automatic exposure seems a bit overblown to me, and I like a darker, more colorful shot. Of course, I've missed a few "opportunities", while fumbling with the settings, but, on the whole, I prefer to shoot on the fly. Daughter has a little Canon SD200, and I doubt she ever ventures beyond AUTO. Even so, she's picked up some nice images that I missed, either because I had the "wrong lens" or messed up the aperture, shutter speed, focus, etc etc etc dwight |
#79
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Canon Rebel XT - Can't get good pictures.
dwight wrote:
"Philippe" wrote in message news:cR14h.59682$H7.39744@edtnps82... Frank ess wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:16:16 GMT, philippe wrote: JC Dill wrote: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:56:54 GMT, philippe wrote: There's a learning curve for anything that has multiple controls. When you get into a different car, you have to learn how all the controls react differently from your prior car. The brakes will react differently, the steering will be sharper or softer, the turn signals and shifter will be in slightly different locations, the heating controls will work differently, your view from the driver's seat will be different, etc. Ditto for a different camera. Not really the same thing, since "standard" reverses itself going to a DSLR. With a p/s, auto is the default setting and you have to go out of your way (so to speak) to get manual control.. DSLR assumes manual control of most aspects of the shot. No? DSLR cameras have many semi-automatic settings and most have at least one "mostly automatic" setting. But it can't read minds. It can't know when the scene is mostly white or mostly black, or when a fast shutter or deep depth-of-field are called for. Learning to use a DSLR could be compared to learning to drive a manual shift sportscar when you only know how to drive an automatic sedan. In order to get the full benefit of the extra features of the sports car you need to learn more about how to drive. My daughter learned to drive in a '66 Lotus Elan, and she's an outstanding road and track driver. But not an outstanding photographer. What's my point? No point. I'm just saying. *very* cool... My daughter likes the lotus, but prefers Jaguar.. On X-box, that is.. P. Not that anyone cares, but... I bought my daughter an '88 Mustang convertible with stick (4-cylinder slug), to teach her how to drive "properly." After two fender-benders, we decided to put her in a point-and-shoot car (with automatic). The convertible became my spare, my first ragtop, and later gave way to a '93 GT convertible with auto. My purely fun car is another '93 Mustang 5.0 with stick, which I much prefer over the automatic. Bought that car new in 1993, and it's still with me - hopefully for a long, long time yet. Still, for the daily commute and rush-hour traffic, it's nice to have an automatic at hand. I use my Rebel XT almost exclusively on manual settings. It's automatic exposure seems a bit overblown to me, and I like a darker, more colorful shot. Of course, I've missed a few "opportunities", while fumbling with the settings, but, on the whole, I prefer to shoot on the fly. Daughter has a little Canon SD200, and I doubt she ever ventures beyond AUTO. Even so, she's picked up some nice images that I missed, either because I had the "wrong lens" or messed up the aperture, shutter speed, focus, etc etc etc dwight Daughter(s) not old enough to drive yet.. :P Eldest *does* use my old G2 though, and tries to stay away from automatic as much as possible.. She's just starting to play with the manual settings on it and I think It's love.. She goes for shots I don't usually try for (more artsy, modern) and seems happy with the speed (or, currently, lack thereof) of manually setting up the camera to achieve what she wants. Younger still using my old Sony with auto-everything.. but I'll corrupt her yet. P. |
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