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#21
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains. Or titanium foil curtains. Completely different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various cameras. I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact bodies. Bud |
#22
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On 2012-03-17 00:08:14 +0000, William Hamblen said:
On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains. Or titanium foil curtains. Completely different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various cameras. I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact bodies. I was under the impression that Nikon switched from titanium shutter curtains to aluminum because the production of titanium is environmentally unfriendly. I have a vague recollection of being dismayed shortly after because another manufacturer decided to adorn their products with a titanium finish just because it looked pretty. Does anyone remember this or is my memory playing up as it often does? |
#23
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On 2012-03-17, Pete A wrote:
On 2012-03-17 00:08:14 +0000, William Hamblen said: On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains. Or titanium foil curtains. Completely different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various cameras. I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact bodies. I was under the impression that Nikon switched from titanium shutter curtains to aluminum because the production of titanium is environmentally unfriendly. I have a vague recollection of being dismayed shortly after because another manufacturer decided to adorn their products with a titanium finish just because it looked pretty. Does anyone remember this or is my memory playing up as it often does? The shutter on the FM2 changed from titanium to aluminum during its production run. These were not "curtains" as in the F/F2/F3, however. Bud |
#24
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
Ian wrote,on my timestamp of 17/03/2012 4:46 AM:
I used both types of shutter and found that the vertical shutter was less liable to shake at slow shutter speeds than the horizontal one. I think (it was a long time ago) that I compared the Canon A1 (horizontal shutter) and T90 (vertical shutter). Using a 50mm lens, the slowest shakefree speed with the horizontal shutter was 1/30 or 1/60 and the slowest shakefree speed with the vertical shutter was 1/8 or 1/15. Ah well, that's what you get when you compare a camera 10 years younger than another. It's got nothing to do with the direction of the shutter and all to do with a more modern design with better dampening. Besides, the A1 was notoriously under-dampened in the mirror box and that had a major impact. The only way to accurately compare those two for shutter vibration is to use each with the mirror up. Try using a Konica Hexar or ZI RF with vertical shutter and a Leica with horizontal and then you'll clearly see the difference. |
#25
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
David Dyer-Bennet wrote,on my timestamp of 17/03/2012 1:42 AM:
(And now I'm not sure about the F, either; I only owned one of those briefly, and only when it was quite old technology. Horizontal, I'm sure, but material I'm not. Okay, if I'm reading this right, this says Nikon switched the F to titanium curtains early in its life.http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc12ti-e/index.htm Looking at my F's shutter, it looks like a thin metal of some sort, so I guess titaniun is a good punt. |
#27
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:23:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes: : : David Dyer-Bennet wrote: : : : I believe all the Nikkormats had vertical shutters. The Ft, which was : quite early, is described as having a vertical shutter and 1/125 sec : flash sync in multiple online sources, for example. I remember the FTN : as having 1/125 sync as well, and I believe that was always a sign of : a vertical shutter. : : Yes. I think the Ft was the first. It's predecssor was the Nikkorex F, which : was made by Mamiya for Nikon. I believe the shutter was made by Copal. : : The Nikkormat Ftn, was an Ft with center weighted metering. This matched the : metering of the Photomic Ftn finder on the F. : : The same shutter was used in all the Nikkormats (Ft, FTn, Ft2, Ft3) and an : electronicaly timed version was used in the EL and EL2. : : If not the same, very similar shutters were used in the FM and FE. : : They did move faster; sync at 1/200 and then 1/250th. : : The cameras with curtain shutters (F/F2/F3) had a top flash sync of 1/90th. : : The F at least was 1/60, which was the common standard on all the : horizontal cloth-curtain bodies I've owned (Miranda Sensorex, Leica M3, : Pentax Spotmatic) and many I've read up on or examined. : : The F3 had 1/80 sync speed according to multiple online references (I : never owned one). : : I think the F2 initiated the 1/80 sync speed, but I never owned one of : those, either, and online references aren't quite as clear to my eyes : (photos of F3 shutter speed dials are pretty clear). I had an F2 (still do, I guess, but I'd have to dig it out of the closet), and 1/80 doesn't sound right to me. It may have been 1/120; but if I were a betting man, I'd say 1/60. Before the F2, I had an S2 (1/30) and an SP (possibly 1/60). Bob |
#28
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On 2012-03-21 01:20:12 +0000, Robert Coe said:
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:23:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: : "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes: : : David Dyer-Bennet wrote: : : : I believe all the Nikkormats had vertical shutters. The Ft, which was : quite early, is described as having a vertical shutter and 1/125 sec : flash sync in multiple online sources, for example. I remember the FTN : as having 1/125 sync as well, and I believe that was always a sign of : a vertical shutter. : : Yes. I think the Ft was the first. It's predecssor was the Nikkorex F, which : was made by Mamiya for Nikon. I believe the shutter was made by Copal. : : The Nikkormat Ftn, was an Ft with center weighted metering. This matched the : metering of the Photomic Ftn finder on the F. : : The same shutter was used in all the Nikkormats (Ft, FTn, Ft2, Ft3) and an : electronicaly timed version was used in the EL and EL2. : : If not the same, very similar shutters were used in the FM and FE. : : They did move faster; sync at 1/200 and then 1/250th. : : The cameras with curtain shutters (F/F2/F3) had a top flash sync of 1/90th. : : The F at least was 1/60, which was the common standard on all the : horizontal cloth-curtain bodies I've owned (Miranda Sensorex, Leica M3, : Pentax Spotmatic) and many I've read up on or examined. : : The F3 had 1/80 sync speed according to multiple online references (I : never owned one). : : I think the F2 initiated the 1/80 sync speed, but I never owned one of : those, either, and online references aren't quite as clear to my eyes : (photos of F3 shutter speed dials are pretty clear). I had an F2 (still do, I guess, but I'd have to dig it out of the closet), and 1/80 doesn't sound right to me. It may have been 1/120; but if I were a betting man, I'd say 1/60. Before the F2, I had an S2 (1/30) and an SP (possibly 1/60). The F2 X-sync of 1/80 s was indicated by a red line on the dial: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/htmls/index2.htm |
#29
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:21:45 +0000, Pete A
wrote: Any half-decent painter does HDR without even realizing yet the temporal aspect of nature usually escapes them. Get real, painting a sunset takes longer than it takes the sun to set! Yet, I've got a photograph of a sunset which over a period of time turned into a sunrise. Regards, Eric Stevens |
#30
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First time owner of a 35mm Camera
On 2012-03-21 20:57:19 +0000, Eric Stevens said:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:21:45 +0000, Pete A wrote: Any half-decent painter does HDR without even realizing yet the temporal aspect of nature usually escapes them. Get real, painting a sunset takes longer than it takes the sun to set! Yet, I've got a photograph of a sunset which over a period of time turned into a sunrise. Being at a latitude of about 52 degrees, I hope I only encounter that by falling asleep during the shoot. |
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