A first attempt at something arty

It's been a very long time since I posted in here but it's a pandemic
and I'm bored plus I have been meaning to take photography more
seriously. It's nice to see a familiar name or two and a still active
newsgroup. Anyway, here's some blah and a photo plus my thinking behind
taking the photo.

Oh photography. Where am I with this? I've been browsing Getty Images or
Pinterest on and off and chasing down pictures by notable photographers
as well as movies by good directors for inspiration and to begin turning
everything I have read into practice. I still have my Canon G9 which I
would like to use more but for the portraiture I've been taking for work
reasons it's problematic without a wireless remote so I have been using
an Android smartphone with Camera-FV5 and a Bluetooth remote. Being in
the middle of a pandemic creates a lot of problems but is also an
opportunity for exploring creativity and getting something done instead
of just yapping about it.

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

I don't have any photography lights at the moment and arranging scenery
and tripods is a big hassle so I was lazy. The background is a shower
curtain which softened the light. For lots of you this kind of trick is
really old but it's the first time I ever used a technique like this so
don't be too harsh. I actually wanted to take more artfully composed
pictures but the size and arrangement of the scene as it was and
absenmindedly mislaying my tripod for a week didn't help. I'm amazed how
good photographers can take the corner of a room or a window and a chair
or a table, or a vase, or mirror or other object and objects and create
magic or sometimes find the magic in an existing scene and paint a story
where if the light or pose was any different would be lost or it would
simply be a snap. This is the kind of direction I was working in and I
hope for a first effort including the rest of the batch I took I
succeeded as best I could.

I also like film and find digital to be a bit of a minefield because so
much is possible and I don't have the skills or want to invest a silly
amount of time in post-processing when I'm not a printer or artist and
don't know what I am doing. Film can provide a very pleasing artistic
constraint. I'm a fan of Kodachrome and Tri-X and kind of shot this
picture with them at the back of my mind.

Obviously I'd like to take more pedestrian photographs too but the
pandemic and weather and procrastination is playing up.


--
Melanie van Buren

In article , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 31/12/2020 19:40, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?

Bog standard Android smartphone. Nothing special. Bit of a daft question
really when the most important thing is artistic development.

I've been reading up on a couple of notable photographers and one in
particular. It's interesting noting how they kept things simple with
their choice of cameras and lenses and other equipment. Some would say
spartan certainly compared to gearheads. Their skill really was in their
psychological influences and making a thing of various elements of
taking pictures which appealed to them and suited their work habits plus
of course observation and composing scenes and using a notebook to
record their ideas.

I'm never going to take pictures like them because I'm not them but I
like aspects of their work and of course there is the inspiration. Their
commentary on their shooting process and the bits and pieces of of this
are helping me organise how I'm thinking about photography better.

One thing I liked was the idea of found light but then they had their
own favourite lighting both dark and light conditions which dominated
their artistic work. Less so their commercial work.

Picking through some photographs I also felt inspired about poses and
scene building. Some outside shots are nothing special in themselves.
It's all in the light and pose. For other more clever photos indoors
composition and poses are key. The more deliberate work might involve
sourcing an item or shifting furniture or grabbing things from different
rooms to create a scene but it's all still a fairly simple methodology.

--
Melanie van Buren

On Dec 31, 2020, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

On 31/12/2020 19:40, Alfred Molon wrote:
In , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?

Bog standard Android smartphone. Nothing special. Bit of a daft question
really when the most important thing is artistic development.

I've been reading up on a couple of notable photographers and one in
particular. It's interesting noting how they kept things simple with
their choice of cameras and lenses and other equipment. Some would say
spartan certainly compared to gearheads. Their skill really was in their
psychological influences and making a thing of various elements of
taking pictures which appealed to them and suited their work habits plus
of course observation and composing scenes and using a notebook to
record their ideas.

I'm never going to take pictures like them because I'm not them but I
like aspects of their work and of course there is the inspiration. Their
commentary on their shooting process and the bits and pieces of of this
are helping me organise how I'm thinking about photography better.

One thing I liked was the idea of found light but then they had their
own favourite lighting both dark and light conditions which dominated
their artistic work. Less so their commercial work.

Picking through some photographs I also felt inspired about poses and
scene building. Some outside shots are nothing special in themselves.
It's all in the light and pose. For other more clever photos indoors
composition and poses are key. The more deliberate work might involve
sourcing an item or shifting furniture or grabbing things from different
rooms to create a scene but it's all still a fairly simple methodology.

I can’t speak for Alfred, and I’m a relative newbie here even after a
couple of years, but what I’ve seen is that most commentary on photos has
tended towards the technical side. I think that would explain his questions.
I’ll just guess that the technical issues with your photo are by choice,
and that is the look you wanted. I don’t have an artistic bone in my body,
but that’s no reason to stop me from commenting on that aspect: I think
your subject (I don’t know if that’s you) does have an interesting look,
and I do like the photo overall. My only criticism is the framing. It just
seems off to me.

In article , lid
says...

On 31/12/2020 19:40, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?

Bog standard Android smartphone. Nothing special. Bit of a daft question
really when the most important thing is artistic development.

I've been reading up on a couple of notable photographers and one in
particular. It's interesting noting how they kept things simple with
their choice of cameras and lenses and other equipment. Some would say
spartan certainly compared to gearheads. Their skill really was in their
psychological influences and making a thing of various elements of
taking pictures which appealed to them and suited their work habits plus
of course observation and composing scenes and using a notebook to
record their ideas.

I'm never going to take pictures like them because I'm not them but I
like aspects of their work and of course there is the inspiration. Their
commentary on their shooting process and the bits and pieces of of this
are helping me organise how I'm thinking about photography better.

One thing I liked was the idea of found light but then they had their
own favourite lighting both dark and light conditions which dominated
their artistic work. Less so their commercial work.

Picking through some photographs I also felt inspired about poses and
scene building. Some outside shots are nothing special in themselves.
It's all in the light and pose. For other more clever photos indoors
composition and poses are key. The more deliberate work might involve
sourcing an item or shifting furniture or grabbing things from different
rooms to create a scene but it's all still a fairly simple methodology.

Well, the image has some technical issues (noise, sharpness),
but let's ignore these for the moment.

My only comment is that if I had had that model available for
me, I would have tried something else. A different angle,
perspective, pose etc.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 31/12/2020 23:48, Bill W wrote:
On Dec 31, 2020, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

On 31/12/2020 19:40, Alfred Molon wrote:
In , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?

Bog standard Android smartphone. Nothing special. Bit of a daft question
really when the most important thing is artistic development.

I've been reading up on a couple of notable photographers and one in
particular. It's interesting noting how they kept things simple with
their choice of cameras and lenses and other equipment. Some would say
spartan certainly compared to gearheads. Their skill really was in their
psychological influences and making a thing of various elements of
taking pictures which appealed to them and suited their work habits plus
of course observation and composing scenes and using a notebook to
record their ideas.

I'm never going to take pictures like them because I'm not them but I
like aspects of their work and of course there is the inspiration. Their
commentary on their shooting process and the bits and pieces of of this
are helping me organise how I'm thinking about photography better.

One thing I liked was the idea of found light but then they had their
own favourite lighting both dark and light conditions which dominated
their artistic work. Less so their commercial work.

Picking through some photographs I also felt inspired about poses and
scene building. Some outside shots are nothing special in themselves.
It's all in the light and pose. For other more clever photos indoors
composition and poses are key. The more deliberate work might involve
sourcing an item or shifting furniture or grabbing things from different
rooms to create a scene but it's all still a fairly simple methodology.

I can’t speak for Alfred, and I’m a relative newbie here even after a
couple of years, but what I’ve seen is that most commentary on photos has
tended towards the technical side. I think that would explain his questions.
I’ll just guess that the technical issues with your photo are by choice,
and that is the look you wanted. I don’t have an artistic bone in my body,
but that’s no reason to stop me from commenting on that aspect: I think
your subject (I don’t know if that’s you) does have an interesting look,
and I do like the photo overall. My only criticism is the framing. It just
seems off to me.

Yes I've noticed there is a lot of technical leaning in these groups.
I've already explained the equipment issues, as well as the scene and
light availability, and the artistic intent. Also there's the fact it's
a self portrait (yes, that was me) and the first time I made a serious
attempt at aiming for classic modern and, for want of better words, a
certain kind of magazine or coffee table book you find with the great
postwar to 1990's era photographers who specialised in glamour or fashion.

There's a balance between technical, artistic, and actually getting
something done. At the end of the day you have to start somewhere.
Speaking of which - framing...

I suspect you are correct about framing. This photograph was taken in my
bathroom and I had the problem of finding a composition I liked, dealing
with mislaying my tripod and having to use a selfie stick, the available
light, and dealing with the subject i.e. me. This photo was one of a
batch I thought made the cut. The basic idea was fine but the photos are
variable so composition style and mood and subtexts are a bit all over
the place. During my editing process of the ones which made the cut a
number of them including this one were saved by cropping. I also made
some presentation choices which turned out to be variable too such as
reading glasses not normal glasses, the wrong necklace and earrings, and
some issues with makeup. There are also issues with the pose both from
the narrative aspect to the fact I wasn't using a tripod and the camera
position.

I agree there is something pleasing about the photo. There are a lot of
issues if you unpack it but then this was the first time I tried to put
everything into practice. I've learned a lot. As for how and whether I
can move past this and improve I'll need more practice to know.


--
Melanie van Buren

On 01/01/2021 00:48, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , lid
says...

On 31/12/2020 19:40, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , lid
says...

This picture is nothing special but one of a batch of photos I took to
develop an eye for light and scenery as well as posing for portraits.
For work reasons it's borderline NSFW and I dislike posting anything
more explicit even for work. (No I won't be posting any links or spam or
encouraging discussion related to work only the merits and demerits of
photographs and photographic discussion.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6x9fzrol1...20-20-49-1.jpg

Did you take this picture and if so, what camera, lens, ISO etc.
did you use?

Bog standard Android smartphone. Nothing special. Bit of a daft question
really when the most important thing is artistic development.

I've been reading up on a couple of notable photographers and one in
particular. It's interesting noting how they kept things simple with
their choice of cameras and lenses and other equipment. Some would say
spartan certainly compared to gearheads. Their skill really was in their
psychological influences and making a thing of various elements of
taking pictures which appealed to them and suited their work habits plus
of course observation and composing scenes and using a notebook to
record their ideas.

I'm never going to take pictures like them because I'm not them but I
like aspects of their work and of course there is the inspiration. Their
commentary on their shooting process and the bits and pieces of of this
are helping me organise how I'm thinking about photography better.

One thing I liked was the idea of found light but then they had their
own favourite lighting both dark and light conditions which dominated
their artistic work. Less so their commercial work.

Picking through some photographs I also felt inspired about poses and
scene building. Some outside shots are nothing special in themselves.
It's all in the light and pose. For other more clever photos indoors
composition and poses are key. The more deliberate work might involve
sourcing an item or shifting furniture or grabbing things from different
rooms to create a scene but it's all still a fairly simple methodology.

Well, the image has some technical issues (noise, sharpness),
but let's ignore these for the moment.

My only comment is that if I had had that model available for
me, I would have tried something else. A different angle,
perspective, pose etc.

I've explained the background technical and scene and presentation
constraints in other posts. It was one of a batch of self portraits.
That was me in the photo. This was a first try at something. I'm not
Helmut Newton, or Horst P Horst, or Stanley Kubrick nor do I have the
budget and there isn't much I can do about the model unless I fire
myself. It was a useful learning exercise for lots of reasons and, I
hope, future pictures will be better and begin to get all of the
elements together including the ones you note.

As for the light I was using found light and a ****ty smartphone which
has a good camera in daylight but is a bit crap in low light and only
produces JPEGs not raw. My Canon G9 is a lot better but had other
problems. In post-processing I also used a Kodachrome film preset which
added what you are perceiving as noise. None of this bugs me as it was a
choice for artistic and technical and practical reasons.

I'm still having problems with getting the concept, poses, and scene
issues which include composition etcetera all lined up. A lot of this is
exploration and self-exploration in terms of emotions and comfort zones
and finding my own photographic voice as it were. Ignoring concept and
scene issues posing has lots of its own issues like maintaining spatial
and body awareness so I'm in position, at the right angles, and don't
have a foot or a hand or something else in the wrong place which ruins
an otherwise good photo. I'm having a lot of problems juggling this with
the scene and also the concept i.e. the totality of what the camera sees
when the shutter is activated.

Today I was doing some research. I'm probably looking for other things
and there are different things I like and dislike but I'm finding this
inspiring even if it's one hundred levels above what I am capable of and
the direction my photography takes goes in completely different directions.

https://www.photogpedia.com/profile-...helmut-newton/
https://www.dazeddigital.com/photogr...-helmut-newton
https://www.phillips.com/detail/hors...st/UK040214/88


--
Melanie van Buren

Do you want to continue doing self-portraits or try shooting
other people? In the latter case it's more easy to get
interesting results.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 01/01/2021 10:39, Alfred Molon wrote:
Do you want to continue doing self-portraits or try shooting
other people? In the latter case it's more easy to get
interesting results.

Oh, gee. Thanks. (**** off.)


--
Melanie van Buren

On Jan 1, 2021, Melanie van Buren wrote
(in article ):

On 01/01/2021 10:39, Alfred Molon wrote:
Do you want to continue doing self-portraits or try shooting
other people? In the latter case it's more easy to get
interesting results.

Oh, gee. Thanks. (**** off.)

If you are looking for constructive criticism, and useful advice there is little point in being oversensitive when that criticism, and advice is delivered sincerely.

My primary observation through this entire thread is that you are trying to express yourself artistically with limited training, and tools. My personal advice to you is to do some reading, or even a look through YouTube tutorial videos on the subject. From the image you posted I believe the photography genre you are trying to work in is “boudoir photography� so I would search for help in that area.

You are also limiting yourself with a phone camera. Some are quite capable of producing good, sometimes great images, but most will have a tough time reaching demanding expectations. Get yourself a more capable camera, or an iPhone 12.

--
Regards,
Savageduck