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#21
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Whisky-dave wrote: If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let them. they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital. the problem is that the original article was about high schools and colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice. Just where does it say the students have no choice. -- PeterN |
#22
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:
snip digital media is the future. No it's the present. There is quantum computing in our future. -- PeterN |
#23
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/2014 4:13 PM, James Silverton wrote:
On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Stephen wrote: This might be of interest. It's about schools around Boston where film photography and darkroom classes are popular. Apparently they had to find a store to get them a supply of materials: http://betaboston.com/news/2014/06/1...l-film-photogr aph y-s till-popular-at-some-local-schools/ apparently those schools haven't received the memo about digital photography. Crealde School of Art offers photography classes including "PH144 Black & White Film Photography". The also have a darkroom rental program. http://www.crealde.org/photography.html The teacher, Peter Schreyer, has quite a solid CV. http://www.crealde.org/Faculty/Peter...yer/index.html Quite a nice guy, too. I've participated in some programs with him. yet another school who hasn't got the memo. just what do these people who are taking the classes expect to do with their new found skills? open up a custom darkroom lab? Make beautiful prints that generations can enjoy. prints can be made from digital. With digital, the files would be lost once the person loses interest in keeping the files up to date & accessible. Assuming the storage medium even lasts. Digital needs a cpu, software, a display and something to read the medium the digital file is on. nonsense. film needs low humidity storage and there are no backups. once they're damaged, they're *gone*. digital will outlast any physical media, with unlimited numbers of backups that can be anywhere in the world, so no risk of natural disaster damaging anything. Film doesn't require special equipment to view, you can see the image on the film with your eyeball. only if you don't mind postage stamp sized images, and for negatives, they'll be reversed. plus it's trivial to pull up any digital image, especially since everyone has a computer, tablet or smartphone. there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no longer needed. So, the catalogs that companies like Grizzly, Mouser, Digi-key and B&H Photo send out don't exist? Then there are books, magazines and newspapers. the bulk of their business is online sales, not from a paper catalog, which most companies don't send out anymore anyway. plus, it's a *lot* easier to teach and learn digital photography than it is film. The only difference between the film and digital, is what's needed to get the final output. Well, there is another, electricity isn't needed to take a photo on film... the days of mechanical cameras are *long* gone. Would not a black and white print using a laser printer with carbon ink on a no-acid paper keep quite well? It could be scanned back into a computer system if necessary. Color prints might be best stored electronically and copied to current media from time to time if they have value. Admittedly, silver separation negatives can keep very well, witness the color prints of Prokudin-Gorsky from about the end of the nineteenth century but I can't see anyone making such negatives now. Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations: "Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence. -- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)" -- Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD) Extraneous "not." in Reply To. |
#24
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/14 1:29 PM, in article , "nospam" wrote: In article , George Kerby wrote: There was once a time where REAL photographers knew the techniques necessary to prevent "red-eye". Now, any moron can touch a button to clean up his sloppy snapshots. that's a good thing, since it empowers anyone to take good photos, not just the 'experts'. Ahhhh! "The infinite monkey theorem" LIVES!!!! |
#25
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article 2014062012324512991-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck" wrote: On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no longer needed. It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going to be used to wrap fish and chips? it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press? and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill. ...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly. Mine as well. There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their products: IT WORKS! |
#26
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/14 2:59 PM, in article , "nospam" wrote: In article 2014062012324512991-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: ...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly. they're one of the few and it's a complete waste of trees and the postage to mail them out. mine goes straight to the landfill. i don't even look at it. You know, there is something that you can do about it if it bothers you that much? UNSUBSCRIBE! |
#27
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton" wrote: On 6/20/2014 4:13 PM, James Silverton wrote: On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Stephen wrote: This might be of interest. It's about schools around Boston where film photography and darkroom classes are popular. Apparently they had to find a store to get them a supply of materials: http://betaboston.com/news/2014/06/17/darkroom-over-digital-film-photog r aph y-s till-popular-at-some-local-schools/ apparently those schools haven't received the memo about digital photography. Crealde School of Art offers photography classes including "PH144 Black & White Film Photography". The also have a darkroom rental program. http://www.crealde.org/photography.html The teacher, Peter Schreyer, has quite a solid CV. http://www.crealde.org/Faculty/Peter...yer/index.html Quite a nice guy, too. I've participated in some programs with him. yet another school who hasn't got the memo. just what do these people who are taking the classes expect to do with their new found skills? open up a custom darkroom lab? Make beautiful prints that generations can enjoy. prints can be made from digital. With digital, the files would be lost once the person loses interest in keeping the files up to date & accessible. Assuming the storage medium even lasts. Digital needs a cpu, software, a display and something to read the medium the digital file is on. nonsense. film needs low humidity storage and there are no backups. once they're damaged, they're *gone*. digital will outlast any physical media, with unlimited numbers of backups that can be anywhere in the world, so no risk of natural disaster damaging anything. Film doesn't require special equipment to view, you can see the image on the film with your eyeball. only if you don't mind postage stamp sized images, and for negatives, they'll be reversed. plus it's trivial to pull up any digital image, especially since everyone has a computer, tablet or smartphone. there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no longer needed. So, the catalogs that companies like Grizzly, Mouser, Digi-key and B&H Photo send out don't exist? Then there are books, magazines and newspapers. the bulk of their business is online sales, not from a paper catalog, which most companies don't send out anymore anyway. plus, it's a *lot* easier to teach and learn digital photography than it is film. The only difference between the film and digital, is what's needed to get the final output. Well, there is another, electricity isn't needed to take a photo on film... the days of mechanical cameras are *long* gone. Would not a black and white print using a laser printer with carbon ink on a no-acid paper keep quite well? It could be scanned back into a computer system if necessary. Color prints might be best stored electronically and copied to current media from time to time if they have value. Admittedly, silver separation negatives can keep very well, witness the color prints of Prokudin-Gorsky from about the end of the nineteenth century but I can't see anyone making such negatives now. Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations: "Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence. -- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)" "I have become my father" is one of my favorites... |
#28
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Darkroom classes
On 2014-06-20 21:55:51 +0000, George Kerby said:
On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article 2014062012324512991-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck" wrote: On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no longer needed. It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going to be used to wrap fish and chips? it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press? and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill. ...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly. Mine as well. There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their products: IT WORKS! You would just love the catalogs I get from Rock Island Auction (RIA) from time to time. They are pure works of art. Here is a quick shot of a page from one I just happen to have handy. https://db.tt/khZ7KYJM https://www.rockislandauction.com/home -- Regards, Savageduck |
#29
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Darkroom classes
On 2014-06-20 21:59:24 +0000, George Kerby said:
On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton" wrote: Le Snip Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations: "Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence. -- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)" "I have become my father" is one of my favorites... That wouldn't be too bad. My father is going to be 91 in three weeks, he has a 76 year old lady friend. He is in good health, and he has just updated his current OSX 10.6.8 to 10.9.3. If I could emulate that if I reach 91. https://db.tt/6Wjcrfz9 -- Regards, Savageduck |
#30
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Darkroom classes
On 6/20/14 6:11 PM, in article 2014062016115319195-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck" wrote: On 2014-06-20 21:55:51 +0000, George Kerby said: On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article 2014062012324512991-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck" wrote: On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no longer needed. It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going to be used to wrap fish and chips? it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press? and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill. ...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly. Mine as well. There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their products: IT WORKS! You would just love the catalogs I get from Rock Island Auction (RIA) from time to time. They are pure works of art. Here is a quick shot of a page from one I just happen to have handy. https://db.tt/khZ7KYJM https://www.rockislandauction.com/home Exactly! Catalogs will always be there. |
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