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#111
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
otter wrote:
On Sep 19, 8:58 am, Stuffed wrote: In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Paul wrote: Stuffed Crust wrote: and my favorite was technically awful. Didn't stop me ;-) Okay, okay... http://www.peachyphotos.com/po/photo/155305:214508 I know what I was trying to accomplish, but it just didn't work.... - Solomon You captured the moment! Brought back memories. But you need someone handing you a hot cup of coffee! |
#112
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On 2011-09-19 00:08:59 +0100, Paul Furman said:
Pete A wrote: I've left my biggest obsession until last: "rendering intent." While writing my comments on SI submissions I have no idea as to the intended rendering of each image. I wonder, is its purpose: to look good as displayed on the Web page with a black background; to be the front cover of a magazine; to be a double-page spread in a prestigious journal; to be framed and offered for sale at a high price; or to be a giant poster on display in a shop or on billboard? My sax player should be framed at 8x10 in a local dimly lit cafe g. If you had a series of B&W images, taken with that lens, there is no reason why you couldn't get commissioned to supply pictures for a cafe or restaurant. It may not sound very prestigious, but if it's an establishment that attracts business clients, there's no better advertising than to have your name on every photo adorning the walls of their favourite eating house. The only reason that the lens is still in production is because it sells its own images, when used knowledgeably. You have that knowledge, take advantage of it. |
#113
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce
wrote: tony cooper wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:03:33 +0100, Bruce wrote: tony cooper wrote: I think it's a little different when you have member-to-member critiques on a face-to-face basis. Members tend to be more complimentary and more gentle in critiquing in that situation. Obviously the members don't want to upset fellow members and risk receiving adverse comments about their own work. It is mutual admiration only, perhaps with a slight hint of 'damning with faint praise'. It is just like actors' praise of each other, which quickly achieves ridiculous heights, all because of the fear of what might be said in return, perhaps at a later date. Of course this can never be called 'critique'. It is about as far from honest and objective critique as it could get. And this is precisely where the SI finds itself. Our critiques are by judges only, and the judges don't know whose photo it is. If the judges are truly independent, that's the best (or least worst) way, but are the judges also members of the club? If so, their comments will be bound by the same constraints as I described above, and the whole exercise becomes pointless. Three judges each competition night x 10 competition nights per year = finding 30 judges. One of the three is always an outsider, and they the club tries to get two outsiders if they can. Probably the same outsiders, drawn from a very small pool? No, not at all. I can't remember one appearing twice in the same 12 months. I can only remember one who appeared twice in 24 months. The remaining judges are members who are either professional photographers or very experienced amateurs. In the UK it is very unusual to have club members who are or were professional photographers. Pro shooters have very little time for camera clubs which tend to be more like social clubs for older people where photography is something that the members have in common. There are very, very few camera clubs with members who aren't old, and they tend to be places where film is still popular. The grading is done prior to the meeting without knowing the name of the person submitting the image. The name of the submitter, and the points scored for the image, is given at the time the image is projected on the large screen. The critique is given at that time. A member judge might soften his critique once he knows the name of the member, but point count cannot be changed. The usual critique starts out "We liked this image (or some other pat on the back for the photographer) but we took points off for ...". Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who shot what. Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also, the nature photographers have a distinctive style. But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a sponsor. Second place gets nada. We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones. Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated by Home Depot because a member is an executive there. I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits. Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got lucky a few times. For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's output. His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive, even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not better. You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause". His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the camera club and never return. ;-) He's your kind of guy. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#114
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[SI] Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On 9/18/2011 8:51 PM, Paul Furman wrote:
PeterN wrote: Paul Furman wrote: As always, thanks to all for playing. I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/ Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen. Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated. At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I hadn't noticed in real life g http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/ Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the background is distracting. Could some cloning help? -- Peter |
#115
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On 9/19/2011 1:56 PM, Paul Furman wrote:
otter wrote: On Sep 19, 8:58 am, Stuffed wrote: In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Paul wrote: Stuffed Crust wrote: and my favorite was technically awful. Didn't stop me ;-) Okay, okay... http://www.peachyphotos.com/po/photo/155305:214508 I know what I was trying to accomplish, but it just didn't work.... - Solomon You captured the moment! Brought back memories. But you need someone handing you a hot cup of coffee! Better a hut toddy, served by a companion with a hot body. -- Peter Getting ready to snuggle. |
#116
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[SI] Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
PeterN wrote:
Paul Furman wrote: PeterN wrote: Paul Furman wrote: As always, thanks to all for playing. I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/ Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen. Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated. At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I hadn't noticed in real life g http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/ Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the background is distracting. Could some cloning help? There aren't any buildings big enough to see; between the large rocks is Point Bonita headlands 4 miles away and Mt Davidson or Twin Peaks in San Francisco 10 miles away with a radio tower - lights from the Sunset District / Ocean Beach SF to the right of the rocks. Maybe San Bruno Mt 15 miles away. |
#117
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On 2011-09-19 14:44:36 -0700, tony cooper said:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce wrote: Le Snip Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who shot what. Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also, the nature photographers have a distinctive style. But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a sponsor. Second place gets nada. We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones. Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated by Home Depot because a member is an executive there. I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits. Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got lucky a few times. For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's output. …and absolutely nobody has been given the opportunity to appreciate Bruce's finest output, in competition, SI submission, mutual admiration society, or conversational posting of a URL directing our eyes to a demonstration of his superior skills. His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive, even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not better. You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause". His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the camera club and never return. ;-) He's your kind of guy. However he (the judge of Bruce's tale) will at least voice his opinion to those who will hear. Bruce does not even make the effort to comment on the work he is most critical of, the SI submissions. He just issues a blanket condemnation of SI submissions along with his thin reasons for refusal to participate. Methinks there is a lack of confidence in the quality of Bruce's work and any exposure of an example to the World might reveal his posturing to be without substance. I only have memories of some grainy images of trains posted by one Tony Polson some years ago. I believe this is one such example; http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg -- Regards, Savageduck |
#118
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
On 9/19/2011 8:18 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-09-19 14:44:36 -0700, tony cooper said: On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:23:24 +0100, Bruce wrote: Le Snip Judges who do it regularly will no doubt have a pretty good idea who shot what. Somewhat true in that the member judges know who travels where, so if a shot taken in Marrakesh shows up they'll know who took it. Also, the nature photographers have a distinctive style. But, this isn't National Geographic. It's a local camera club where best-in-catagory gets a blue ribbon and a $25 gift card from a sponsor. Second place gets nada. We have a regular customer who is a retired landscape painter and, to a lesser extent, a landscape photographer. He supplements his pension with a modest income from judging at camera clubs. It's a declining market as clubs close and aren't replaced by new ones. Our judges get a $20 gift card from Home Depot. The cards are donated by Home Depot because a member is an executive there. I asked him if he enjoyed judging, and what advice he would give anyone considering taking it up (we get many requests from camera clubs). He said he hated it, because few, if any camera club members had even a slight grasp of the basics of photography despite many having spent a lot of money on their photo outfits. Bruce, I don't think you'd give Henri Cartier-Bresson credit for being a good photographer, and you probably think that Ansel Adams just got lucky a few times. For some reason, you are incapable of appreciating anyone else's output. …and absolutely nobody has been given the opportunity to appreciate Bruce's finest output, in competition, SI submission, mutual admiration society, or conversational posting of a URL directing our eyes to a demonstration of his superior skills. His advice to anyone considering judging was not to upset anyone by being honest. Instead, a judge should always to try to be positive, even in the face of provocation represented by some truly atrocious shots. He was finding judging increasingly difficult as he returned to the same clubs year after year and saw exactly the same mistakes repeated over and over again, with individuals getting worse, not better. You might look at http://www.orlandocameraclub.com/ and see some of our truly atrocious shots and read the section on "Round of Applause". His most telling comment was that, whenever he came across anyone with any sign of real talent, he would strongly advise them to leave the camera club and never return. ;-) He's your kind of guy. However he (the judge of Bruce's tale) will at least voice his opinion to those who will hear. Bruce does not even make the effort to comment on the work he is most critical of, the SI submissions. He just issues a blanket condemnation of SI submissions along with his thin reasons for refusal to participate. Methinks there is a lack of confidence in the quality of Bruce's work and any exposure of an example to the World might reveal his posturing to be without substance. I only have memories of some grainy images of trains posted by one Tony Polson some years ago. I believe this is one such example; http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg All that means is that Polson's knee is well trained to jerk on certain occasions. -- Peter |
#119
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
otter wrote:
On Sep 19, 7:15 pm, Paul wrote: PeterN wrote: Paul Furman wrote: PeterN wrote: Paul Furman wrote: As always, thanks to all for playing. I've got one more I shot with the mandate in mind, after the deadline: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...n/photostream/ Great composition. I particularly like like the rock stacking in the first Muir Beach. You have captured the mood. Too bad some of the dark area seems a bit blocked. But, maybe it's the screen. Thanks, I actually dropped the exposure almost a stop in post so it looked like dawn, not a white sky, and a little more saturated. At full size, you will see some crazy orange and purple star fish I hadn't noticed in real lifeg http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgehil...60580/sizes/o/ Ah! I see now why you dropped the exposure. The building in the background is distracting. Could some cloning help? There aren't any buildings big enough to see; between the large rocks is Point Bonita headlands 4 miles away and Mt Davidson or Twin Peaks in San Francisco 10 miles away with a radio tower - lights from the Sunset District / Ocean Beach SF to the right of the rocks. Maybe San Bruno Mt 15 miles away. Paul, I take it you live near there? One of my favorite areas. I had a friend who lived in Mill Valley that I used to visit some 40 years ago. I remember going to an arts fair in Sausalito. I think the admission was free or a couple bucks at most. There was a girl band playing. Not bad, but not great. Turns out they were the girl friends of the guys in Quicksilver Messenger Service. The guys got up on stage and did a 20-30 minute instrumental set that just blew me away. I lived in Boulder Creek in the Santa Cruz Mountains for about 5 years. Sure do miss the Bay Area, except for the costs. Been in the city since 88. I was up near Muir Beach all last week... so peaceful. |
#120
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Dusk or Dawn is available mid day!
Bruce wrote,on my timestamp of 20/09/2011 8:51 PM:
So from its original lofty aspirations, the SI has descended into a morass of low quality snapshots taken by people of near-zero ability, but with lots of mutual back-slapping and faint praise for each other's execrable efforts. Hey, it's a backwater club. What else do you expect? |
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