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printing custom signs



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 15th 21, 11:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default printing custom signs

On 15/04/2021 17:38, nospam wrote:
it's identical to a question 'arlen' asked a year or two ago,


Plonk.

Troll. Accuse someone else of being your favorite **** buddy.

EOD.

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #12  
Old April 15th 21, 11:50 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default printing custom signs

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

I used a spreadsheet program once to print a sign that was two by three
pieces of 8.5x11" paper.
I don't remember the exact procedure, but basically I setup the
spreadsheet so that the cells were a multiple of 8.5x11. Then I pasted a
'picture' of the text into the top left cell and sized it to cover 2x3
cells.


there's nothing like taking the simplest of tasks and turning it into a
convoluted process that gives poor results.

why not just print the 'picture' from whatever software was used to
generate said picture?

set the page size to whatever size is needed and then choose print.
done. the computer does the rest.

the results will still be less than ideal, but not quite as bad as via
a spreadsheet.

for the record, the proper tool for large signs (or any size, actually)
is adobe illustrator.


Go back and re-read my first sentence. The sign was large enough that it
required six pieces of paper- two by three sheets.


i'm well aware of that.

now go back and reread what i wrote, specifically this part:
set the page size to whatever size is needed and then choose print.
done. the computer does the rest.


that's *it*.

I didn't have a
printer large enough for that, so I had to come up with a way to tile
the sign.


no you didn't.

computers are there to do work *for* you.

all you need to do is tell it the desired size. the computer does the
rest.

if the printer is not big enough for a single print, the image will
*automatically* be tiled into multiple sheets. cut marks can be added
if desired, or full bleed if the printer supports it.

http://fashionclassroom.com/images/content/blog/page-tiling-03.png

Since this was a one-off event, I wasn't going to invest in
any additional software (even freeware).


in other words, you deliberately chose to do a ****ty job. hopefully it
was not for a client.

The results, by the way, were just fine. The spreadsheet software
(probably LibreOffice or OpenOffice) scaled the picture perfectly.


no it didn't, since a spreadsheet was never designed for image
processing.

if you think that upsampling an image in a spreadsheet is fine then you
don't know what good quality is, let alone high quality.

this will be particularly apparent if there was any text in the sign,
which there probably was.

not only will the upsampling be poor, but there won't be any colour
management either.

The proper (first) tool for any large signs is a printer that can handle
that size sign.


nope. a printer is useless without something to send to it.

the proper first tool is software to generate the document to be
printed.

once the document is created, it can then be printed on any printer.

those who don't own a large format printer can send it to a print shop.

if you sent them a spreadsheet, they'd laugh at you. a lot.
  #13  
Old April 20th 21, 06:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 838
Default printing custom signs

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 5:49:01 PM UTC-4, Ken Hart wrote:
... The sign was large enough that it
required six pieces of paper- two by three sheets. I didn't have a
printer large enough for that, so I had to come up with a way to tile
the sign. Since this was a one-off event, I wasn't going to invest in
any additional software (even freeware).

The results, by the way, were just fine. The spreadsheet software
(probably LibreOffice or OpenOffice) scaled the picture perfectly.

The proper (first) tool for any large signs is a printer that can handle
that size sign.


That's one option. Another is to be content with "tiles" printed on 8.5x11" paper.

What one can do that's KISS waterproof is to use office store sheet protectors:
https://www.staples.com/Avery-Side-Insert-Clear-Sheet-Protectors/product_431492

I'd arrange the sheet protector in rows, stapling them on the binder hole side as its
top edge. Then "shingle" the next row above it, with that row's bottom edge overlapping
the binder hole edge to hide it (and make for a more continuously appearing image).

FWIW, I'd probably use some paperclips on the open side of the sheet protectors, to
stop them from billowing open in the wind & better protect from rain.

Nice part about this is that to redo the sign with a new printout, its just take off the
paperclips, slide the old papers out of each sleeve, & slide the new papers in.

-hh
  #14  
Old April 22nd 21, 07:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default printing custom signs

On 20/04/2021 18:37, -hh wrote:
The proper (first) tool for any large signs is a printer that can handle
that size sign.


That's one option. Another is to be content with "tiles" printed on 8.5x11" paper.

What one can do that's KISS waterproof is to use office store sheet protectors:
https://www.staples.com/Avery-Side-Insert-Clear-Sheet-Protectors/product_431492


KISS is always a good idea (as the objecdtive is to do it all at home).
Thanks for that idea of printing directly to the plastic sheet protectors.

Those plastic sheet protectors seem like a good idea for the printed stencil
because I can probably laser print directly to them. Then I can cut out the
stencil lettering which has a couple benefits over printing to paper.

The plastic stencil can be cut directly and the plastic stencil won't get
wet from the spray paint like cardboard might and it may even be easier to
hold an edge for painting when cut than paper would (especially if I re-use
the stencil more than once).

The other KISS option is to tape the printed paper to thin cardboard & cut
out the thin cardboard stencil using the printed paper as the outline.

BTW I decided to hone the color to as close to the official blue & red for
USA road signs I can get in a spray can. That official blue & red turned out
to be Pantone Blue 294C & Pantone Red 187C according to this reference.
https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno-colorspec.htm

Microsoft doesn't do Pantone apparently so I set Powerpoint to the closest
RGB/HSV colors which for blue is RGB 0 47 108 & for red is RGB 166 25 46
according to this reference.
https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/294-C
https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/187-C
(This exact color match isn't really necessary but it's easily enough done.)

I've got the official road sign fonts embedded into PowerPoint (again not
needed but useful if at some point I send it off to a professional printer).

I'm writing up the full procedure so that we can make it better which as
most of you understood it's designed to be as KISS as possible but still
fully customizable using only a home printer and basic home materials.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #15  
Old April 22nd 21, 11:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default printing custom signs

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 2:25:50 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 20/04/2021 18:37, -hh wrote:
The proper (first) tool for any large signs is a printer that can handle
that size sign.


That's one option. Another is to be content with "tiles" printed on 8.5x11" paper.

What one can do that's KISS waterproof is to use office store sheet protectors:
https://www.staples.com/Avery-Side-Insert-Clear-Sheet-Protectors/product_431492

KISS is always a good idea (as the objecdtive is to do it all at home).

Thanks for that idea of printing directly to the plastic sheet protectors.

Those plastic sheet protectors seem like a good idea for the printed stencil
because I can probably laser print directly to them. Then I can cut out the
stencil lettering which has a couple benefits over printing to paper.


Ah, I think I misunderstood your intent. I was assuming print onto paper
which would be the "end product" that's used on the sign. Each sheet of
said paper would then be slid into its own sheet protector on the sign,
which would protect the paper from the elements.

-hh

The plastic stencil can be cut directly and the plastic stencil won't get
wet from the spray paint like cardboard might and it may even be easier to
hold an edge for painting when cut than paper would (especially if I re-use
the stencil more than once).

The other KISS option is to tape the printed paper to thin cardboard & cut
out the thin cardboard stencil using the printed paper as the outline.

BTW I decided to hone the color to as close to the official blue & red for
USA road signs I can get in a spray can. That official blue & red turned out
to be Pantone Blue 294C & Pantone Red 187C according to this reference.
https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno-colorspec.htm

Microsoft doesn't do Pantone apparently so I set Powerpoint to the closest
RGB/HSV colors which for blue is RGB 0 47 108 & for red is RGB 166 25 46
according to this reference.
https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/294-C
https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/187-C
(This exact color match isn't really necessary but it's easily enough done.)

I've got the official road sign fonts embedded into PowerPoint (again not
needed but useful if at some point I send it off to a professional printer).

I'm writing up the full procedure so that we can make it better which as
most of you understood it's designed to be as KISS as possible but still
fully customizable using only a home printer and basic home materials.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown

  #16  
Old April 22nd 21, 06:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default printing custom signs

On 22/04/2021 12:45, -hh wrote:
Ah, I think I misunderstood your intent. I was assuming print onto paper
which would be the "end product" that's used on the sign. Each sheet of
said paper would then be slid into its own sheet protector on the sign,
which would protect the paper from the elements.


Actually I misunderstood you because I thought you meant to print on the
clear sheets of plastic. Do home laser printers print onto clear sheets?

Probably right?

Anyway I printed a B&W test signs & while it's good enough for what I need I
don't like the Powerpoint to GIF to Posterazor tiles to PDF printing steps.

I am testing out a Powerpoint to SVG (via Inkscape) to vector format which
if I ever do hand to a printer to make vinyl sheets would have nicer edges.

I picked up the road sign fonts from the suggestions shown in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr1UAdiek5w

I embedded the fonts in Powerpoint such that when I copied and pasted the
entire sign into Inkscape the sign fonts worked great in both programs.

In Inkscape I convert to vector format using the two simple steps shown here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPDzyphwJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bObBvmXlHRc

The steps to convert Powerpoint to vector format in Inkscape are
Copy the entire page in powerpoint (control A & control C)
Open Inkscape to "File" - "New from Template" - "Blank Page"
Set the "Page size" to the final size of the sign (eg 11x17)
If needed set the "Page orientation" & "Page background"
Then press the "Create from Template" button to create a blank page
Now paste that entire Powerpoint page into Inkscape (control V)
Convert to vector format using Inkscape Path Object to Path
And then using Inkscape Path Trace Bitmap OK Save
There's an Inkscape SVG & a Plain SVG that I'm not sure which to use
There's also an Inkscape save to PDF which can use the document's page size

Once I have the sign saved either as vector PDF or SVG I can send the SVG to
a professional printer (if desired) or open the PDF if I'm home printing.

Adobe Acrobat will open the PDF as the full size (in this case 11x17 because
I haven't yet figured out how to make a blank Inkscape template of the exact
desired sizes).

The Acrobat print dialog can tile the output using the Acrobat settings
Page Scaling = Tile all pages
Tile Scale = 100%
Overlap = 1 inch
Cut Marks = Western-style

I need to figure out how to create an Inkscape blank page template of the
right size (eg 17.5 x 11.5) but for now I can fit it into an existing
Inkscape blank page 11x17 template for my testing.

Starting from the Inkscape step how would you improve on what it outputs?
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #17  
Old April 22nd 21, 07:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default printing custom signs

On 22/04/2021 19:48, Martin Brown wrote:
I need to figure out how to create an Inkscape blank page template of the
right size (eg 17.5 x 11.5) but for now I can fit it into an existing
Inkscape blank page 11x17 template for my testing.


Well that was easy to create a blank sign template of any desired size.
https://graphicdesign.stackexchange....lt-canvas-size

Start Inkscape 1.0.2-2 on Windows 10
File - New from Template - Blank Page - (pick the closest available)
Page size = Ledger/Tabloid - 11x17in (the exact size doesn't matter)
Page orientation = vertical (Portrait)
Page background = White Opaque
Create from Template
File - Document Properties - Custom size
Orientation = Portrait
Width = 11.5
Height = 17.25
File - Save Template
Name = blank_sign_portrait_11.5x17.25
Description = Template blank_sign_portrait_11.5x17.25
(You can check the box to "Set as default template" if desired
Save

You can repeat that process for "blank_sign_landscape_17.25x11.5"
and any other sizes you may have (eg 23.75x17.8 landscape & portrait).

Results for my tests were (in alphabetical order as listed in Inkscape)
blank_sign_landscape_17.25x11.5
blank_sign_landscape_23.75x17.8
blank_sign_portrait_11.5x17.25
blank_sign_portrait_17.8x23.75

Then you can open the template using
Inkscape File - New from Template - (choose your blank template)

And when you paste in the Powerpoint graphics & text and convert to vector
format and then save as a vector PDF you end up with a PDF of the right size
which then can be printed using the Adobe Acrobat print tiling menus.

Obviously I could have started the edits in Inkscape but given I already
created the signs in Powerpoint do you think the process of converting the
pasted Powerpoint text (and minor graphics such as the border and separation
lines between text) to vector format is good enough for printing?
Paste the entire Powerpoint page into Inkscape (control V)
Convert to vector format using Inkscape Path Object to Path
And then using Inkscape Path Trace Bitmap OK Save
Save to a vector PDF from Inkscape

This creates a vector PDF of the size needed for Adobe print tiling.
I think.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #18  
Old April 22nd 21, 08:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 838
Default printing custom signs

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 1:47:59 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/04/2021 12:45, -hh wrote:
Ah, I think I misunderstood your intent. I was assuming print onto paper
which would be the "end product" that's used on the sign. Each sheet of
said paper would then be slid into its own sheet protector on the sign,
which would protect the paper from the elements.


Actually I misunderstood you because I thought you meant to print on the
clear sheets of plastic. Do home laser printers print onto clear sheets?

Probably right?


I used to print on clear acetate sheets for making overhead transparencies,
but its been years (and years).

But that material is different than the plastic used on sheet protectors.
I'd not risk sending a sheet protector through the heat of a laser printer,
as its probably got a high risk of melting & trashing the printing drum(s).

My recollection is that ink pen plotters did an okay job printing on acetate;
B&W Laser was okay too ... but you needed the "laser printer compatible"
acetate sheets for this. Inkjet could look pretty good, but would often have
a big smear risk (usually since one was in a hurry) & ample time to dry.

Finally, for all of the above, you need to print only on the "rough" side of the clear
acetate sheet. This primer offers some tips:

https://www.printerland.co.uk/blog/guide-to-printing-transparencies/

The stuff gets relatively expensive pretty quick, plus since they are transparent,
you need to make sure you have an appropriate (eg, white) background on the sign.

-hh
  #19  
Old April 23rd 21, 04:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default printing custom signs

On 22/04/2021 21:05, -hh wrote:
My recollection is that ink pen plotters did an okay job printing on acetate;
B&W Laser was okay too ... but you needed the "laser printer compatible"
acetate sheets for this.


Thanks for the advice on how to print to the clear acetate sheets at home.

I've tested this a few times now where I made pseodo acetate by sticking
clear packing tape on both sides of the already printed paper and then
trying to cut out the stencil with a sharp knife.

The plastic isn't the problem so much as the letters when they get smaller
than about an inch are unfortunately not worth the effort to cut out by
hand. For whatever reason the lower case letters are even harder to cut.

I did learn that Adobe Acrobat is the way to go!

There's just no reason for any other tiling program unless you know of one
that works even better than does Acrobat. My printer doesn't print to the
edge so I need a lot of overlap. Acrobat printer tiling gives me all the
user selectable overlap I could ask for and Acrobat adds the cut marks I
need to line up the paper cutter.

Plus Acrobat outputs a vector graphics PDF whereas Posterazor didn't as far
as I could tell (although with stencils rasterization doesn't matter).

The vector graphics PDF matters though if I were to send it to a printer.

As it is the steps are really simple for the setup
-1- I prefer to edit in Powerpoint (that's just me as any editor works)
-2- I embed the TTF road fonts using a set on the net everyone seems to use
-3- I set the official Pantone colors for road signs to their RGB values

The printing steps are similarly really simple
-1- I copy & paste Powerpoint into an Inkscape template of the right size
-2- I convert to vector (but it seems to already be in vector format!)
-3- I save as SVG, eps, PDF & PostScript (which seem to handle vector files)
-4- I print from Adobe Acrobat using tiling cut marks & overlap options

Bear in mind I'm confused about whether or not Inkscape is even needed
because the PDF from PowerPoint already seems to be in vector graphics.

As it is, if anyone knows of a better or simpler way that uses only typical
home materials let me know as this is already pretty simple but it could
always improve.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 




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