Does smartphone angle of view depend only on focal length?

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?

because they're now digital.

"35mm cameras" are not digital.

they are now.

The "35mm" part refers to a film size.

originally, it did, but now that film is dead, it refers to the camera.

There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

it obviously refers to the form factor, not the non-existent and no
longer relevant film size.




You have been directed to dozens of websites from major photo retailers
and manufacturers, and all of them make a distinction between "35mm
cameras" and digital cameras that may look like the 'classic' 35mm film
camera.

quite the opposite.

i posted *numerous* links that shows the term '35mm digital camera'
actively being used, including by pentax, who knows quite a bit about
cameras, having made the first slr with a retracting mirror, among many
other innovations.

and this url might even work in banned countries:
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1/
Based on its experiences and expertise accumulated over these years,
PENTAX now has the final answer: a new 35mm full-frame digital SLR
camera named PENTAX K-1
....
True to its number-1 naming, the PENTAX K-1 signifies the arrival of
a new era in 35mm full-frame digital SLR cameras.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

From the current Nikon web site
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm or

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/

those may exist, but almost none are sold or even manufactured.

I wasn't pointing to sales. I was drawing your attention to word
usage.

you missed the part about digital now being the default.

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?

because they're now digital.

Bull****.

bull**** right back.

the number of non-digital cameras is so low that to call it a round off
error would exaggerate the number.

On 1/2/2019 6:51 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
On 1/2/19 8:25 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

*From the current Nikon web site
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm or

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/

those may exist, but almost none are sold or even manufactured.

I wasn't pointing to sales. I was drawing your attention to word
usage.

you missed the part about digital now being the default.

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?

because they're now digital.


"35mm cameras" are not digital. The "35mm" part refers to a film size.
There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

You have been directed to dozens of websites from major photo retailers
and manufacturers, and all of them make a distinction between "35mm
cameras" and digital cameras that may look like the 'classic' 35mm film
camera.

The unwashed masses may consider all cameras to be digital. But among
photography professionals (and knowledgeable amateurs), film still
exists, and cameras that use 35 millimeter film are 35mm cameras.

Speaking of the "unwashed masses"- Available for immediate pickup at the
local WalMart are the following:
-- Fujifilm Quicksnap 800 Waterproof 35mm Disposable Camera - 27
Exposures, $9.49
-- Fujifilm Disposable 35mm Camera With Flash, 2 Pack, $13.09
-- Fujifilm One Time Use 35mm Camera with Flash, $8.46
-- Three Roll pack SUPERIA 400 36EX film, $12.99.

If you search for "digital cameras" at WalMart, they are all referred to
as "digital" cameras; some as "digital SLR", and some as "DSLR". Not a
one of them is called a "35mm camera", even those that are "35mm form
factor", such as Canon EOS digital, and Nikon D7200 digital.

Clearly, there is a distinction between a "35mm (film) camera" and a
digital camera. Whether you (nospam) accept it or not.


I find it odd that nobody has brought up the wiki article on "35 mm
equivalent focal length"
[Maybe I missed that part of the thread?]
~~
" [...] The term is useful because most photographers experienced with
interchangeable lenses are most familiar with the 35 mm film format. [...] "
~~
Note the term "film" used there. There's nothing about film being
obsolete, or
"digital now being the default" anywhere in that article.
~~ ~~
OK, carry on....
--
==
Later...
Ron c
--

On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 19:19:39 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

From the current Nikon web site
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm or

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f6/

those may exist, but almost none are sold or even manufactured.

I wasn't pointing to sales. I was drawing your attention to word
usage.

you missed the part about digital now being the default.

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?

because they're now digital.

Bull****.

bull**** right back.

the number of non-digital cameras is so low that to call it a round off
error would exaggerate the number.

Despite your continued misuse of the term, there have never been any
digital 35mm cameras.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


Despite your continued misuse of the term,

i'm not misusing anything.

as usual, you're fixated on a specific meaning and refuse to adapt to
how language and technology has evolved.

there have never been any
digital 35mm cameras.

not only have there been, but there's more being made every day.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 19:19:33 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

In your heavy snippage (which you have not indicated) you deleted my
question "Which has what to do with 35mm cameras?"

So, I ask you again, which has what to do with 35mm cameras?

because they're now digital.

"35mm cameras" are not digital.

they are now.

The "35mm" part refers to a film size.

originally, it did, but now that film is dead, it refers to the camera.

There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

it obviously refers to the form factor, not the non-existent and no
longer relevant film size.

Even that is bull**** (on several levels). DSLRs of today are heavier
and more bulky than their eqivalents of the past. They in no way share
the same form factor. And I can buy several makes of 35mm film from a
number of outlets within a few miles from me. It is not
"non-existent".

--- snip ---
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


"35mm cameras" are not digital.

they are now.

The "35mm" part refers to a film size.

originally, it did, but now that film is dead, it refers to the camera.

There are digital cameras that are "35mm form factor", "35mm style(d)",
"dSLR", and many other similar terms. But a (common) digital camera does
not use 35mm film, therefore, it is not a "35mm camera". A "35mm camera"
is a camera that uses 35mm film.

it obviously refers to the form factor, not the non-existent and no
longer relevant film size.

Even that is bull**** (on several levels).

not at all.

DSLRs of today are heavier
and more bulky than their eqivalents of the past.

nonsense. they're comparable in size & weight, with digital slrs often
smaller and lighter in weight than film slrs.

you're also ignoring the bulk of all the film one needs to carry (and
keeping it cool if necessary), versus a memory card, or more recently,
sync to the cloud and no memory card (i.e., unlimited photos, something
not possible with film).

They in no way share
the same form factor.

they most certainly do.

film nikon n90:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/4/247143-2149015_01.jpg

digital nikon d40:
https://www.keh.com/media/catalog/pr...800x/040ec09b1
e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/0/208784-2177935_01.jpg

not only do they look nearly identical, but they accept the same
lenses. in fact, the nikon d40 will accept the old nikon non-ai lenses
without issue, which the n90 cannot. in other words, *more* lenses.

and for an even closer match, there is the nikon df:
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp.../uploads/sites
/12/2014/01/Nikon_Df_front-538x500.jpg
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp.../uploads/sites
/12/2014/01/Nikon_Df_top-593x500.jpg

And I can buy several makes of 35mm film from a
number of outlets within a few miles from me. It is not
"non-existent".

compared to digital, it very definitely is:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2017/03/cameraproductionchart.jpg

be sure to zoom in, or just look at the relevant portion:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2017/03/camerasalesfeat.jpg

as i said before, calling it a round-off error would make film seem
bigger than it actually is.

put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.

On 1/3/19 5:42 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


Despite your continued misuse of the term,

i'm not misusing anything.

as usual, you're fixated on a specific meaning and refuse to adapt to
how language and technology has evolved.

there have never been any
digital 35mm cameras.

not only have there been, but there's more being made every day.


I suppose one could take the pentaprism off of a Canon Pellix and put a
digital sensor in it's place. It would remain a 35mm camera, and it
would also be digital at the _same_ _time_.

(You could do the same with many other 35mm cameras, but they would not
be film and digital simultaneously as the Pellix would be. That whole
mirror blackout thing.)

Then perhaps someone might resurrect that digital sensor sticking out of
a 35mm film cassette idea. But that would be a 35mm camera with digital
retrofit.

The fact remains, there have never been any digital 35mm cameras.

--
Ken Hart

On 1/3/19 6:53 PM, nospam wrote:


put another way, in the time it takes you to go to a store, buy a roll
of film, shoot some photos and then go back to that store and have it
processed, roughly a billion digital photos will have been taken.


Of course, the bulk of those digital photos will be crap. If you only
have 24 or 36 chances to get it right, you tend to be more careful to
get it right.

(I don't have to go to the store for a roll of film- I buy several
bricks at a time and keep it in the film freezer. And I don't have to go
back to the store for processing- the C41 darkroom is fifteen feet away.)
--
Ken Hart

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

I suppose one could take the pentaprism off of a Canon Pellix and put a
digital sensor in it's place. It would remain a 35mm camera, and it
would also be digital at the _same_ _time_.

no, it would not.

it would be a film camera with a digital viewfinder.

it also doesn't need to be a canon pellix. any camera with an
interchangeable prism would work.

(You could do the same with many other 35mm cameras, but they would not
be film and digital simultaneously as the Pellix would be. That whole
mirror blackout thing.)

nobody said anything about simultaneous.

Then perhaps someone might resurrect that digital sensor sticking out of
a 35mm film cassette idea. But that would be a 35mm camera with digital
retrofit.

actually, someone has and it's *really* bad, laughably so.
http://imback.eu/home/

The fact remains, there have never been any digital 35mm cameras.

the fact is that there have been and continue to be.

pentax, who knows quite a bit about 35mm cameras, confirms it:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1/
PENTAX now has the final answer: a new 35mm full-frame digital SLR
camera
....
True to its number-1 naming, the PENTAX K-1 signifies the arrival of
a new era in 35mm full-frame digital SLR cameras.