Nikon d70s vs EOS 20d

I have agonized over these 2 models for nearly a year. I have always been
partial to Nikon, resisted Windows and have only made the jump to digital
format from emulsion 35mm and 4x5 cameras 3 years ago...but the features on
the Canon 20d are quite impressive but i do not know Canon cameras. Sure you
see them on the sidelines all the time...either the white lenses or the
black lenses..whatever......6.1 mega pix or 8.1 The new Nikon D70s, is well
new and hundreds of dollars less than the 20d.

would anyone care to tip the balance for me?

vpenoso wrote:

would anyone care to tip the balance for me?

Choose between the systems, not these particular cameras. You'll spend a
lot more on the lenses, but you'll want a new camera in a few years. I
daresay you'll be happy with the results from either camera; both are very
nice. So look at the systems, and look at the ergonomics and design
principles to see which camera is made in a way you prefer.

--
Jeremy |

"vpenoso" wrote in message
...
I have agonized over these 2 models for nearly a year. I have always been
partial to Nikon, resisted Windows and have only made the jump to digital
format from emulsion 35mm and 4x5 cameras 3 years ago...but the features
on
the Canon 20d are quite impressive but i do not know Canon cameras. Sure
you
see them on the sidelines all the time...either the white lenses or the
black lenses..whatever......6.1 mega pix or 8.1 The new Nikon D70s, is
well
new and hundreds of dollars less than the 20d.

would anyone care to tip the balance for me?



You will spend so many $1000's on lenses, I would not skimp for a few $100
on the body. The 20D is superior in all respects (unless you find that the
D70s "feels" better, but _personally_ I found the Canons superior in
"feel").

Musty wrote:

"vpenoso" wrote in message
...

I have agonized over these 2 models for nearly a year. I have always been
partial to Nikon, resisted Windows and have only made the jump to digital
format from emulsion 35mm and 4x5 cameras 3 years ago...but the features

on

the Canon 20d are quite impressive but i do not know Canon cameras. Sure

you

see them on the sidelines all the time...either the white lenses or the
black lenses..whatever......6.1 mega pix or 8.1 The new Nikon D70s, is

well

new and hundreds of dollars less than the 20d.

would anyone care to tip the balance for me?




You will spend so many $1000's on lenses, I would not skimp for a few $100
on the body. The 20D is superior in all respects (unless you find that the
D70s "feels" better, but _personally_ I found the Canons superior in
"feel").


You might spend many thousands on lenses. Personally I would be very
comfortable to buy only Nikkor DX lenses to suit the 1:1.5 format, as
they will be smaller, lighter, and cheaper than equivalent 35mm format
lenses, and that influenced my decision. If it is true that Canon are
releasing a 1:1.3 ratio DSLR soon, then their logic confuses me. I trust
from the introduction of the D2X and new lenses being released
(including aftermarket brands) that Nikon has settled on 1:1.5 format as
a standard (they can always alter the 3/2 DX ratio to 4/3 (or even
"square" format later - as apart from non-round lenshoods, the optics
can cope with it.
Forget about pixel count. Even with an expensive D2X 12mp, theoretical
"detail" improvement is marginal - 30% at best - and assumes that you
got everything else right. The next "leap" from 6 or 8 mp is 25-30 mp -
not 10 or 15mp. This can certainly be done with a CCD/CMOS sensor at
1:1.5 ratio size - they will get noise levels down on these. Save some
money for a new computer, as a 16 bit tiff is going to be 150-200mb.

You an own a DSLR and still resist windows. Apple or Linux will
suffice, including freeware/GPL raw image editors for Linux.

I too have been agonizing over the Nikon d70 vs. the Canon 20d. For
what it's worth, I started film with a small rangefinder, eventually
went to a Canon AE1, and eventually went Nikon with an F3. I still have
my F3, but I also have an F4. Time to go digital, except for my
favorite landscape shots, where film still rules for a 24x36 enlargement.

Anyway, I have some nice Nikon lenses, so I'm preliminarily inclined to
stick with Nikon. I've got some primes, a 20, a 24, a 50, and a 105,
but I do most of my film work with the 35-70/2.8, because it's just
about the sharpest, best standard focal length lens I have (the 105 does
give it a run for the money, and for wide landscapes, the 20 is hard to
beat).

I mainly use my F4 for everyday shooting, because it's flash
capabilities are far superior to the F3, but for landscapes where I
generally shoot manual it doesn't offer much over the F3. And for
astrophotography, the F3 is simply the best film body ever created (with
the DW-4 6x magnified 90 degree finder).

I'm keeping my F3 and selling the F4 to get into digital. I'll also
sell a few lenses, mainly keeping my primes for the F3, and perhaps the
35-70. My requirements for the digital side will be everyday shooting,
my kids doing their plays, snaps of the family at events, etc. The F3
should handle any film needs I have.

So which one? Both appear to be great cameras, and I'm willing to
switch to Canon for superior functionality. So I went with a CF card to
my local shop and shot both cameras for about an hour. There's no
question that as a Nikon user, the interface of the Nikon just felt
better, but the Canon has some nice touches. What I liked about the
Nikon, t5hough, is the ability to change certain settings that I'll
often be changing without having to go to menus. The Canon seems to
have a lot of things in its menus that the Nikon gives you direct access
via buttons. I happen to like direct buttons, levers, switches, etc.,
which is why I never moved to an F100, or an F5. The F4, I think, is my
favorite film camera, though the simplicity and pure photography delight
of the F3 is hard to beat. Though I use the F4 more often, when I pick
up the F3 it just fits in my hand beautifully, I can operate it without
moving my eye from the viewfinder because everything is laid out in
exactly the right place, and I'm so used to its 80/20 center weighted
meter that I only very rarely have exposure error. The D70 is not in
the same league as either of those cameras, but it does have that
intuitive feel I'm used to.

The Canon, though, has superior pixel count, and resolves finer detail
in large blowups. So crops will be easier to get good sharp results.

But then, I know this won't be the last digital body I get. If it were,
the Canon would win, and I'd invest in Canon lenses.

And here's the kicker. We're comparing a Nikon D70 with a very nice
18-70 lens, for under $1,0000, to a Canon 20D with a nice 17-85 lens
(albeit slower than Nikon's 18-70) at about $1,800. For all email, web
publishing, and prints up to about 8x12 and perhaps 11x 17, the results
are pretty much similar. If it were only a hundred dollars or so, I
think I'd have gone with the Canon. But at nearly twice the price, I
just couldn't go with the Canon.

Flash is also important to me. From all I've read, the d70 has
absolutely brilliant flash control (reminds me of when I finally got an
F4 and discovered perfectly exposed flash photos every time). The
Canon, apparently, has more trouble with its flash algorithm. But as
I've already said, for the purposes I need, family pics, events, etc.,
that flash finesse will come to be appreciated.

I do fully expect to end up with Nikon's replacement for the d100, the
d200 or whatever they label it, with perhaps 10 megapixels and a host of
features I'll want, and I'm fairly certain I'll do that in the next two
years. Which is why the relatively inexpensive D70 is, FOR ME, the
right camera at this time. I can handle replacing it much more easily
than replacing the 20d in a year or so.

In the meantime, when I scan a perfectly exposed slide from my F3 and
wind up with a 128 Mb file covering some 24 megapixels, and it looks as
fine as any digital shots of seen, I'm comfortable that I'll have the
right tools for all my photographic needs. At least for now.

But I know I'll be lusting after that d200 as soon as I get my D70. I
ordered it TODAY!

And I know I'll always look at 20d owners with a bit of jealousy for
their superior pixel count, silky smooth CMOS sensor, and wider range of
lenses.

Seems to me they're both great cameras, and if the Canon were only a bit
more than the Nikon I'd probably spring for it. But frankly, both of
them them will be obsolete in 2 years, so I'm a bit reluctantly to spend
so much more on the Canon, even in view of its strengths.

Mark

vpenoso wrote:
I have agonized over these 2 models for nearly a year. I have always been
partial to Nikon, resisted Windows and have only made the jump to digital
format from emulsion 35mm and 4x5 cameras 3 years ago...but the features on
the Canon 20d are quite impressive but i do not know Canon cameras. Sure you
see them on the sidelines all the time...either the white lenses or the
black lenses..whatever......6.1 mega pix or 8.1 The new Nikon D70s, is well
new and hundreds of dollars less than the 20d.

would anyone care to tip the balance for me?

mjr wrote:

And I know I'll always look at 20d owners with a bit of jealousy for
their superior pixel count, silky smooth CMOS sensor,

You'll find that stuff makes very little difference.

and wider range of lenses.

Eh? One of the advantages of Nikon is the huge array of nice lenses you
have at your disposal, since Nikon never changed their lens mount. You
can pick up some fine glass for decent prices, if you don't mind focusing
manually. (Which, on a D70 (or a 20D, for that matter) is a bit of an
issue, actually, with the smaller viewfinders without manual focus aids.
Compared to a D2x with its much larger viewfinder it's like night and day.)

--
Jeremy |

In article ,
Jeremy Nixon wrote:
Eh? One of the advantages of Nikon is the huge array of nice lenses you
have at your disposal, since Nikon never changed their lens mount. You
can pick up some fine glass for decent prices, if you don't mind focusing
manually. (Which, on a D70 (or a 20D, for that matter) is a bit of an
issue, actually, with the smaller viewfinders without manual focus aids.

Maybe it is just me, but I prefer to have a working light meter, even
on a digital camera.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Philip Homburg wrote:

Maybe it is just me, but I prefer to have a working light meter, even
on a digital camera.

I guess there is that, on a D70, though autoexposure is overrated.
If you feel you'll upgrade in the future, though, you'll get full
functionality on pro Nikons with even non-CPU lenses.

--
Jeremy |

In article ,
Jeremy Nixon wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:

Maybe it is just me, but I prefer to have a working light meter, even
on a digital camera.

I guess there is that, on a D70, though autoexposure is overrated.
If you feel you'll upgrade in the future, though, you'll get full
functionality on pro Nikons with even non-CPU lenses.

I recently bought an obsolete pro Nikon DSLR. And taking pictures on a sunny
afternoon, when I could hardly read the LCD screen, I was quickly reminded
that a light meter is not an optional extra on a DLSR.

Now, to get the full functionality out of my Nikkors, Nikon would have to
come with a full-frame DSLR :-)


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Philip Homburg wrote:

If you feel you'll upgrade in the future, though, you'll get full
functionality on pro Nikons with even non-CPU lenses.

I recently bought an obsolete pro Nikon DSLR. And taking pictures on a sunny
afternoon, when I could hardly read the LCD screen, I was quickly reminded
that a light meter is not an optional extra on a DLSR.

I dunno about obsolete ones, but anything you can put on the D2x without
breaking the reflex mirror will give you full matrix metering.

--
Jeremy |