Question on film

wrote

SHARPEST possible film ... no grain is good grain ? ... 120

TMax 100 in Xtol is probably the sharpest common combination
if resolution is the criteria. TMax100 in Microdol is the
least grain, but I doubt that in 120 it will make any difference.
Ilford sells clones of the Kodak products.

After that there are all the combinations that 'look sharp'
to somebody: there seems to be no consensus regarding these
films and developers.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
After that there are all the combinations that 'look sharp'
to somebody: there seems to be no consensus regarding these
films and developers.

I myself love big gray areas filled with nice big salt-and-pepper
grain. I like real texture (as opposed to the "fake texture" of grain)
and sharp acutance at edges as well. But the number of people who show
up in this newsgroup asking for how to get no grain seem to have me
outnumbered.

Sort of like when my kids start making wishes, and I wish for something
I already have. They tell me that I can't do that. But I tell them that
I've already got it and I'm happy!

Tim.

I think, the consunsus is, isnt a lack of grain I am looking for but
rather the "sharp acutance" of wich you speak.

I HATE on fast color film where it looks like its been shot through a
sandstorm, I have som 30 reels of Europe that were shot in 800 when it
first hit the makret, ugh....everyhting looks like its in a haze or
sandstorm, like monet's...

THANK You !

"Acutance effefts are produced on the negative by using developers
which tend to exagerate the contrast as sharp transitions between dark
and light."

Upon further thought and reflection between the charpness, a large
portion of the look is the high contrast,

On that note which of the above films has the highest contrast ?

wrote:
I think, the consunsus is, isnt a lack of grain I am looking for but
rather the "sharp acutance" of wich you speak.

Getting that requires more than just the "right brand film". The
weather, the wind, the lighting, filtering/polarizers, lens flare, lens
quality, lack of camera shake during the exposure, proper development,
and making a good print on the right contrast paper with the right
dodging and burning all can be more important than the "right film".

I HATE on fast color film where it looks like its been shot through a
sandstorm, I have som 30 reels of Europe that were shot in 800 when it
first hit the makret, ugh....everyhting looks like its in a haze or
sandstorm, like monet's...

In the late 80's/early 90's there were some high speed color slide
films that when pushed to the extreme (like 4 or 5 stops) could render
some very beautiful (but definitely not realistic) effects.

I would highly suggest that you go out and give it a try, figure out
what you like, and then work on getting that.

I really like T-MAX 400 in 120 rollfilm, developed in Xtol, if you want
a starting point. Also did a lot of work with Ilford HP5+ and Acufine.
It's fast enough that camera shake from hand-holding a camera outdoors
is not a major problem. Grain is clearly evident (but to my eyes not at
all objectionable... maybe you will feel different) in a 11x14 print.

Tim.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am beginning to agree, I was looking for a sharpness I
associated
with no grain, it does appear however it may be more of a
contrast
issue.

So tho that end any suggestions on the fellows post above
regarding
"Acutance" ?

I should also say Ive learned more in this forum in the
last 24 hrs
than I ever expected to for a washbin hack this is fun...

The developer that probably is most often satisfactory
for exagerated acutance effects is Agfa Rodinal but its
availability is questionable now. A German company called
Calbe makes a developer which is probably virtually
identical with it. Otherwise, the two extra-fine-grain
developers, Microdol-X and Ilford Perceptol, are good
acutance developers when diluted one part stock to 3 parts
water. Both Kodak and Ilford give developing times for most
films at this dilution. The grain and speed are about the
same as with D-76 but the edge effects are quite noticable.
Rodinal, at high dilutions, was popular because it gave even
stronger acutance effects along with a very sharp grain
pattern. This is really a special effect and should be tried
before you use it for anything important.
As far as overall contrast: This is partly a matter of
development time, the longer the development the greater the
contrast. Some films are inherently more contrasty than
others. For instance, the very slow, very fine grain,
conventional emulsion films have a tendency to become
excessively contrasty. Agfa's film is no longer made but
EFKE evidently has a similar film. Typically, these have an
ISO speed of around 25.
You will have to experiment to find a combination that
suits you but this should give you a place to start.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

In article et,
"Richard Knoppow" writes:

The developer that probably is most often satisfactory
for exagerated acutance effects is Agfa Rodinal but its
availability is questionable now. A German company called
Calbe makes a developer which is probably virtually
identical with it.

Specifically, it's Calbe R09. Fomadon R09 is reportedly the same stuff.
(I'm not sure if it's made in the same factory, but at the very least it's
the same formula.)

I've been seeing reports that A&O (the company that bought up Agfa's
chemistry devision) Rodinal should be appearing on store shelves in the US
within a few days. IIRC, Freestyle is saying they'll have it on 3/27/06.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

In article om,
writes:

If you're coming into this for the first time and are so completely
obsessed with not seeing grain, you might try Ilford XP2 B&W film. It
is available in 120 rollfilm.

Note that Ilford XP2 Super is a C-41 B&W film. You wouldn't ordinarily
develop it in D-76, XTOL, Rodinal, FX-39, or any of the other conventional
B&W chemicals that have been mentioned in this thread. (It CAN be
developed in these chemicals, but results aren't likely to be very
pleasing.) Since the OP seems interested in playing with home development,
I'd advise either staying away from XP2 Super or learning to develop it in
C-41 chemistry. This chemistry is a bit more finicky than most
conventional B&W processes, but it is do-able if you want to do it. If the
OP's interested, he could buy a roll or two to have them commercially
processed, and if he likes the results and wants to do it himself, buy a
C-41 kit and give it a whirl.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

One question not asked reading this far into the thread...
What size camera do you plan to use? (And what size camera did "Grandpa"
use?)

OK, I guess that's TWO questions.

Some of the "best" grainless images I ever saw were shot on glass plates
from a "Bicycle" camera (Quarter Plate? before my time!!).

Some of the sharpest prints I ever saw were HUGE 4x6 foot enlargements from
4x5 Tech Pan negatives shot by Woody Walters in a Florida Swamp.

--
darkroommike

wrote in message
oups.com...
Last night surfing I found Efke 25 and Rollei 25 , any word on these ?
the Efke is cheap. $3.00 a roll cheap..."supposedly" it is not a
"modern" film and supposedly has a high silver content.

And while I know there is much heated debate (on the net) about silver
content old stly vs new stlye film etc etc.

What I am looking for is pictures like my grandfather shot, he isnt
around anymore to ask but his photos were absolutley amazing, the B&W
was so crisp with no grain visible

Another question on what you and another were saying about developing,
I apologize for my ABSOLUTE ignornace when you say a 1:1 dilution , I
mixed the developer with 1 gal of water as the instructions said , do I
then mix say 1 pint of that solution with 1 pint of water again ?

Do I want a slower/longer developing process or a quicker one to avoid
the graininess ?

Also is it better to do this in a Tray or Tank for clarity ?

Many Thanks

Chris

Jean-David Beyer wrote:
John wrote:
On 20 Mar 2006 20:16:49 -0800, wrote:

I also had a question on film, I am looking to do some B&W landscapes
and close ups , I am looking for the SHARPEST possible film, I dont
care if its touchy in developing or shooting, no grain is good grain
?

I have read Agfa 25 fits the bill, but also have read Agfa is
Kaput....

What else is there out there ? rollei 100 made by ? I have read that
its shap, less of a "modern" film, but Im looking for something
RAZOR,
slow is fine....as sharp as possible is the requirmment...

(Oh in 120)

Thanks

Chris

You're asking for opinions so here's mine.

TMX-100, EI 32, D-23 1:1, 12 min. 70F.

I partly agree. If you use D-23, John is probably right, though I do not
think D-23 is sharp enough, probably due to all that sulphite. For 4x5
and
up it is probably acceptable. For 35mm, it may be too mushy for your
taste.

I think TMX (100) is the sharpest film for practical use in a hand-held
camera. I prefer Xtol developer 1+1, and for that, an EI of 50 is
perfectly
good (the EI is affected somewhat by the developer used). I develop for
the
time Kodak recommend, using a diffusion enlarger. If you use a condenser
enlarger, you will probably want to develop for a bit less time.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 07:05:01 up 5 days, 8:16, 3 users, load average: 4.34, 4.21, 4.12

On 21 Mar 2006 05:19:50 -0800, "cgrady" wrote:

It has been several years since I did much darkroom work, but the best
film that I ever saw was Ilford Pan F (Now called Ilford Pan F Plus).
It is available in 120 size from helixcamera.com for $2.99 per roll. I
did a lot of film over the years, but Ilford Pan F was the only film I
ever found that was "viritually" grainless.

PanF + is certainly one of my favorite films. Possibly better than
APX25. I just never used it much as it was only available in the
smaller formats.

==
John S. Douglas
Photographer & Webmaster
www.legacy-photo,com
www.xs750.net