B&W film developing questions

"Ken Hart" wrote in message
...

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
G.T. wrote:
Rob Morley wrote:
If I were to use a drum what would I need? Is it similar to processing
film?

It depends. The simple ones are drums that are like daylight tanks
for stainless steel reels, they have a light trap at the fill end
that does not depend upon a reel.

You stuff the print in it in the dark, close it up and and develop.
Simple drums get rolled on the table, more complex systems have
rolling machines.

Normally they are used for color because consistent agitation and
temperature control are necessary.

There are all sorts of drums for the rolling machines including one
that holds sheet film in an interrupted spiral. You would use it for
small prints if you want to develop several at a time.

Look up Jobo.
Also look up Unicolor.

Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
hypo clear, wash, and dry?

I have a Unicolor 8x10 drum. It's about 4" in diameter and 8+" long. The
bottom is sealed and the top has light baffles thru which the chems are
poured. The Unicolor drum has "feet" so that it sits horizontally, the
chems are poured in and go into a 'trough'. When the drum is rolled off of
it's feet, the chems flow over the paper. According to the instructions,
it requires only 2 ounces of chems. I don't trust this figure and I use at
least 8 ounces, depending on the process. (I use mine for C-41 or RA-4)
The drum will hold 1-8x10 or 2-5x7 or 4-4x5.
If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and
forth across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
Check eBay; the drums and roller bases appear often. I bought my drum as
part of a Unicolor color print kit back in the 1970's, and the drum cost
me $15 a year or so ago on eBay. If you can, get more than one drum. They
can be difficult to reload when damp-- the paper can stick to the sides
and get hung up. If you have more than one, one can be draining while the
other is in use.

[chuckle] I use mine for developing bw 4x5 film. And with four 4x5 sheets
in the drum, I find 150ml - about 5 oz - to be ample. One point - don't
screw on the lid tightly to the drum while in storage...if you do, you'll
find yourself needing another gasket. And those things are darned hard to
find - had to purchase another drum.

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
G.T. wrote:
enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer

I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
timing exposure and developed by inspection.

safelight

That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
make setup and focusing easier.

paper developer

Yes, though some people have said that rodinal works in a pinch.

I forgot, I still have some Clayton P20.


2 drums

The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?

I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?

Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
a bucket or a vertical washer.

something to use for washing

A while ago I mentioned converting an aquarium to a vertical
processor, a leaky one could be used for a washer.

print wiper
dryer?

I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
(indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.


I've got a ton of RC paper left and about 20 sheets of 8x10 fiber.


What am I missing?

Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.


Yeah, got those except for the gloves.

Greg

On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.

Yeah, got those except for the gloves.

Gloves are for sissies.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.

Yeah, got those except for the gloves.

Gloves are for sissies.

Heh, nice motto.

Greg

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Gloves are for sissies.

I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.

I have a sensitivity to vinegar and switched to citric acid based stop
bath.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

In article , G.T.
says...

My bathroom is tiny, tiny. Not much room to stand while brushing my
teeth and the toilet is in a space that I'm not sure I can fit an
enlarger on the toilet seat. It would be very difficult to print in the
my bathroom. And there is just too much light outside at night to close
off my kitchen.

You could always make a blackout tent. This can consist of as little as
a box (or fabric covered frame) in which to stand the enlarger on a
table, and a hood of blackout fabric that you duck inside and close
around your waist.

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:24:03 +0000 (UTC), (Geoffrey
S. Mendelson) wrote:

[---]

As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
good enough to use, but it would be perfect.

That's exactly what I use my old Palm III for. Works very well
indeed.

In article ,
"G.T." writes:

"Rod Smith" wrote in message
...

Experimenting with products is fine; however, since you're just starting
out I'd like to caution you against going wild with all the films and
developers that are out there. You'll learn most quickly if you stick to
just one or two films and one developer while you learn. If you try a new
film/developer combination with every roll or two, you won't learn how the
two work together or be able to optimize your developing techniques. Learn
your basic techniques first and THEN start playing with different
developers.

Basically, for good or bad, I'm using Tri-X 400 (I have also used some of
the current Arista 400 film but for film right now I'm sticking with the
Tri-X),

For future reference, Freestyle sells several different products under
their "Arista" label. You *MUST* pay attention to the specifics -- for
instance, Arista.EDU, Arista.EDU Ultra, and Arista II are all made by
different manufacturers. Many of these products have been discontinued
(mostly because of manufacturers going under, such as Agfa and Forte), so
Freestyle may not have much of some of these items left, but it's
imperative that you pay attention to this detail lest you get the wrong
developing time or provoke confusion in discussions with others.

and on just my 2nd developer, the Rodinal, the 4 oz bottle. I'll
finish this Rodinal up and try some Xtol. I won't be trying any other films
until I get a feel for the differences of the Tri-X in the Accufine, the
Rodinal, and then the Xtol.

Is that reasonable?

Your first post mentioned that you'd just finished developing your first
three rolls "at home." If you've not been developing film elsewhere, going
through as many developers as you mention after just three rolls is
inadvisable; stick with ONE for a while. "A while" is rather vague, I
admit; if you need more precision, I'd say 10-20 rolls before you start
trying other things.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

In article ,
(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:

G.T. wrote:
enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer

I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
timing exposure and developed by inspection.

Most eBay auctions for enlargers include negative carriers, usually a
lens, and sometimes a timer. A few enlargers (such as my Philips PCS130
with PCS150 control unit) have built-in timers.

safelight

That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
make setup and focusing easier.

You can buy a red bulb to turn an ordinary light fixture into a safelight.
Painted tungsten bulbs are a bit risky that way, since the paint can get
scratched off, but they're cheap. Red LEDs (such as those from
http://www.superbrightleds.com) are likely to be safer. There are also, of
course, traditional safelights, which typically take low-wattage tungsten
bulbs and have amber or red filters.

2 drums

The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?

I once tried a hair dryer for this purpose. It ended up cracking the
plastic (I could hear it crack). Now I use towels, except that I seldom
use my drums any more.

I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?

Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
a bucket or a vertical washer.

If you're using drums, you can do most everything in them. Hypo clear is
only necessary when using fiber-based paper; with resin-coated paper, you
skip the hypo clear.

print wiper
dryer?

I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
(indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.

My high-tech RC paper dryer is wire-frame office folder separators from my
local Staples.

As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
good enough to use, but it would be perfect.

I use a pair of cheap 3-way kitchen timers. I can time three steps on
each, which is handy (particularly for film processing). I'd worry about
getting chemicals on anything expensive, although an older Palm Pilot is
probably low enough in value that it's not worth worrying too much about.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

In article ,
(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Gloves are for sissies.

I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.

My understanding is that the most common darkroom skin allergy is to metol
(or perhaps manufacturing impurities that get into metol; I've seen
arguments on this point). Using a metol-free developer can help minimize
the risk of developing such allergies. For film, neither XTOL nor Rodinal
contains metol, but many others (such as the popular D-76) contain metol.
Most commercial paper developers contain metol. Agfa (now A&O) Neutol Plus
and the Silvergrain Tektol line are both metol-free paper developers.
(Note that some other Agfa Neutol developers do contain metol, though;
it's only Neutol Plus that's metol-free.) There are also quite a few
mix-it-yourself paper developers that lack metol.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking