id11/d76 today alternative: Hc110 or Xtol? Or both?

Ecolar wrote:

Indeed, low mineral water is a great idea.
My concern with tap water is the amount of chloride (easy to smell) which
has constantly increased during the last 5 years and has reached a very high
level since the anti-terror gouvernment actions in 2002 (I am living in
Lyon, a major city in France... when I have a chance to spend a week-end in
the Alps, the tap water is just perfect to drink and for developing films!).

According to Kodak, at least, chlorine and chloramine in tap water (at
least at levels permitted for drinking) don't have any effect on
developers or development.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Stick with the ID11. No need to change.If Ilford does go
belly-up you can switch to D76 which is comparable to ID-11. HC110 is
OK if you're using medium or large format but 35mm shows a little too
much grain for my taste.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email



I happily stick with ID-11 or D-76; now I'm trying to make starting from
raw chemicals this kinda soup.

In these days i'm trying also HC110 and Xtol extensively and deeply. And
I'm receiveing good results with Ilfosol-S at 1+14.


thanks john. Your comments are very appreciated.
--
Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto!
Ed io imparo.

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?
I would be very curious to find the technical explaination (and then save on
buying dist. water...)
Thanks,
Emmanuel
"Donald Qualls" wrote in message
om...
Ecolar wrote:

Indeed, low mineral water is a great idea.
My concern with tap water is the amount of chloride (easy to smell)
which
has constantly increased during the last 5 years and has reached a very
high
level since the anti-terror gouvernment actions in 2002 (I am living in
Lyon, a major city in France... when I have a chance to spend a week-end
in
the Alps, the tap water is just perfect to drink and for developing
films!).

According to Kodak, at least, chlorine and chloramine in tap water (at
least at levels permitted for drinking) don't have any effect on
developers or development.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?
I would be very curious to find the technical explaination (and then save on
buying dist. water...)
Thanks,
Emmanuel
"Donald Qualls" wrote in message
om...
Ecolar wrote:

Indeed, low mineral water is a great idea.
My concern with tap water is the amount of chloride (easy to smell)
which
has constantly increased during the last 5 years and has reached a very
high
level since the anti-terror gouvernment actions in 2002 (I am living in
Lyon, a major city in France... when I have a chance to spend a week-end
in
the Alps, the tap water is just perfect to drink and for developing
films!).

According to Kodak, at least, chlorine and chloramine in tap water (at
least at levels permitted for drinking) don't have any effect on
developers or development.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:33:07 +0100, "Ecolar"
wrote:

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?

You really don't need to use distilled water normally. As far
as consistency, I would look elsewhere although you did indicate that
you are using Xtol which is suspected to be sensitive to water
quality. Have you considered using T-Max RS ?


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:33:07 +0100, "Ecolar"
wrote:

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?

You really don't need to use distilled water normally. As far
as consistency, I would look elsewhere although you did indicate that
you are using Xtol which is suspected to be sensitive to water
quality. Have you considered using T-Max RS ?


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

Ecolar wrote:

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?
I would be very curious to find the technical explaination (and then save on
buying dist. water...)

Your tap water comes from a natural source of some sort -- here in the
United States, most major cities get their water from a river or lake
system (otherwise from systems of wells) with considerable treatment
before it reaches consumer taps to ensure the water is biologically and
chemically fit to drink. Those treatments, however, don't filter out
seasonal changes in water composition (in some regions, water is harder
in summer than in winter, or vice versa -- I forget which way it runs),
or short-term changes. There can be chemicals from farm fertilizers,
upstream sewage treatment or industrial effluent, and air pollution that
gets washed into the watershed by rain, iron from rusty pipes, even lead
from really old plumbing (the word "plumbing" comes from "plumbum",
Latin for lead) -- and if the chemicals aren't considered hazardous in
drinking water, the water won't be treated to remove them. If the
chemicals enter the water after treatment (as is the case with most
iron, copper, and lead impurities), there is no possibility of municipal
treatment removing them. Very few drinking water systems are filtered
as you and I think of filtering; it simply costs far too much to apply
micron and carbon filtration to huge quantities of water, most of which
will be used for laundry, showers, and flushing toilets instead of
drinking anyway.

Distilled water is always the same, so it's absolutely consistent. Tap
water isn't always the same (at least in some regions), so it can cause
inconsistent development. Even though Kodak says chlorine and
chloramine don't affect development, there can still be many other
chemicals in water that do.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Ecolar wrote:

Then what could make the developments be more consistant using distilled
water rather than tap water?
I would be very curious to find the technical explaination (and then save on
buying dist. water...)

Your tap water comes from a natural source of some sort -- here in the
United States, most major cities get their water from a river or lake
system (otherwise from systems of wells) with considerable treatment
before it reaches consumer taps to ensure the water is biologically and
chemically fit to drink. Those treatments, however, don't filter out
seasonal changes in water composition (in some regions, water is harder
in summer than in winter, or vice versa -- I forget which way it runs),
or short-term changes. There can be chemicals from farm fertilizers,
upstream sewage treatment or industrial effluent, and air pollution that
gets washed into the watershed by rain, iron from rusty pipes, even lead
from really old plumbing (the word "plumbing" comes from "plumbum",
Latin for lead) -- and if the chemicals aren't considered hazardous in
drinking water, the water won't be treated to remove them. If the
chemicals enter the water after treatment (as is the case with most
iron, copper, and lead impurities), there is no possibility of municipal
treatment removing them. Very few drinking water systems are filtered
as you and I think of filtering; it simply costs far too much to apply
micron and carbon filtration to huge quantities of water, most of which
will be used for laundry, showers, and flushing toilets instead of
drinking anyway.

Distilled water is always the same, so it's absolutely consistent. Tap
water isn't always the same (at least in some regions), so it can cause
inconsistent development. Even though Kodak says chlorine and
chloramine don't affect development, there can still be many other
chemicals in water that do.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.