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DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

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Old November 17th 07, 09:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Ron Hunter
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Posts: 4,064
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

Bill Again wrote:
"Helmsman3" wrote in message
On 15 Nov 2007 09:03:18 -0800, Bill Tuthill wrote:

Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.

In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
of the last many years.

DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.

I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
indicate the beginning of the end?

Pretty much.

Let us for a moment presume there is a sealed-lens/sensor design that
allow in any dust. Takes images in absolute silence. The lens range is a
180-degree fish-eye to an extremely long zoom, all with either an aperture
sensor ISO high enough to capture even the most difficult of hand-held
situations in any settings. The body is of a titanium shell for extreme
durability. Few moving parts allows operation in deep sub-zero
environments. Let
us also presume that the electronic viewfinder (LCD and EVF) is high
enough that its display, feedback, and articulation abilities far exceed
anything that has been implemented so far, optically or otherwise. Lets
presume that these P&S camera designers also had the foresight to include
options of shooting in the IR and UV portions of the spectrum too. This of
course is dependent on an EVF system because no optical viewfinder in the
can accomplish this. Oh what the heck, while we're at it throw in high
video and CD quality stereo sound recording too so you don't even need
camcorder as an accessory anymore. Why not.

Poof! There goes any need for the cumbersome lens interchangeability,
weight, noise, dust, high-cost, focal-plane shutter limitations,
inaccurate and
dim OVF, and all the other drawbacks to using any DSLR.

Surprisingly I've already found all of these conditions met in only 2 P&S
cameras (minus the UV capability and a slightly higher resolution EVF)
with only
2 inexpensive, small, and light-weight adapter lenses. I've already had
thousands of photos published with this combo. Not one person yet can tell
they were done with P&S gear. A whole kit of 1 camera + 2 lenses fitting
one large pocket. If these two P&S camera's features were combined nobody
think twice about buying a DSLR. I certainly never do.

So yes, the advancements of the P&S camera are definitely the death-knell
to the
DSLR. Why would anyone need lens interchangeability if all those ranges,
precision, and capability were built into one dust-free sealed lens?
thought that an 18x high-quality zoom lens was even conceivable just a
short 5
years ago. It's just foolish to duplicate in many parts what can be
with just one. Speaking of all-in-1 options, CHDK is clear proof of that.
can do all the same things, and even more than, what was one time only
by tethering your camera to a bulky and energy-hog computer. Now you don't
need the expense, bulk, travel limitations, and power-requirements of a
if your camera can run CHDK.

Lens interchangeability and the high-ISO performance are the *only* two
thing to
which the DSLR advocates are still tentatively holding onto. And at what
Dust problems? Noise? Camera shake from the mirror and shutter? Slow
shutter limitations? Bulk? Weight? Do I need to list all the drawbacks?

Ultra-zoom lenses are already making one of those "benefits"(?) obsolete.
are grasping at straws now trying to hold onto the high-ISO performance.
it's already been clearly shown that if your long-zoom P&S lens has enough
aperture then even that is not the holy-grail to owning a DSLR.

Yes, the DSLR *IS* going bye-bye. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter
"when". And to my findings the sooner the better. They're a waste of time,
weight, materials, research, and labor. Based on a design that is half a
old with all the same limitations that were inherent in that format from
back then. The only ones still clamoring to wanting a DSLR appear to be
more bent on status, peer pressure, and acceptance by those around them
actually wanting to increase their chances at getting a decent photo. You
the ones who are still emotionally insecure, the ones that have to run
with the
mindless herd for fear of getting lost.

The DSLR will have about the same fondness in 15 years as we do when
back on the flash-cube Instamatic from the late 60's with all its inherent
faults, drawbacks, and limitations. The phrase "I can't believe we put up
those DSLRs back then," will be commonly heard.

You might be right. But just as the cheap watch from Woolworths tells me in
general the same time as any other watch, for some daft reason I prefer my
Rolex. And while my neighbours Nissan takes him adequately from A to B, I
prefer, silly as it may sound, driving there in the Mercedes. Daft I know,
but personal preferences play heavily in these choices. I am sure, however,
that you enjoy your P&S. Keep up the good work, the industry needs you.


Well, I have driven Nissans, and Mercedes, and would much prefer the
Nissan. As for a Rolex, I wouldn't want one. Too much show, for no
more 'go'. And I don't have worry about someone stealing my Timex.
Different strokes for different folks.
Old November 17th 07, 09:49 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Pete D
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Posts: 2,613
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

"Charles" wrote in message
. ..

"Pete D" wrote in message

I really loved the "thousands of photos published",

That is a huge stretch. Maybe he will tell us how they were "published."
(Perhaps right after he identifies the magical P&S cameras?) He rates a

Interesting to see that John Navas has also returned from where ever he has
been hiding and is trying to outpost the entire world, I think he must not
be stopping eat and drink, must be doing double doses of speed as well I am

Old November 17th 07, 09:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

RealityBytes wrote:

No, you're just slow all around. Those shutter speeds hand-held are quite doable
with today's IS cameras. I too tested this. With the right stance it's quite

Hey, *I* manage an 8s 35mm exposure "handheld" -- with a
non-IS camera.
"the right stance" being
- leaning hard against the wall with my whole back
- feet well spread
- using continous shooting to avoid shutter jerking
- pressing the camera hard into my belly (it's one of those
twist-the-monitor models, so I can frame looking top down on it),
- holding my breath for half a minute while shooting

Sure, that works, even without IS --- and it's quite easy.

But it's not what is called handheld. If I can't do it standing
in the middle of an empty plaza, it certainly ain't handheld.


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